Should Calgary Bid on the 2026 Olympics

[bossy22]

The thing is, the oval is getting funding regardless of these games or not. Same with the bobsled track. So those are irrelevant. Winsport isn't going anywhere and will always get funding, regardless of 2026. Same with the nordic center. To use these items in the 2026 argument is disingenuous.



It's all the other items that are dependant on the games. Nakiska expansion, a field house, McMahon renos, Saddledome renos, athlete housing, transit expansion etc.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Muta

What makes you think a renovated Oval and sliding centre can't be used by the public? You seem to be condemning these sports facilities as not being useful; have you tried them? Have you tried luge, bobseld, etc. are you just against it because you've never tried them? Those facilities / organizations would love to have more people take up the sport at any level. You're totally able to do that if you want.

Also, where are you numbers from? By your reasoning, you need to remember that '$3B in public money' isn't just from Calgary taxpayers, it's from across Canada - we have a chance to have federal dollars invested in Calgary that originate outside of our own local tax base. This is also a chance to have your federal tax dollars come BACK to Calgary - taxes that you've paid, that in any other budget would likely go to other areas of Canada.

Don't forget that any federal Olympic contribution means that money is coming directly into Calgary from across the country. That investment is NOT happening otherwise.

I’m saying the renovated oval and the addition sliding Center renovations to Olympic standard do not improve public use. These facilities exist already. The current sliding track vs the Olympic upgrades do not change the public’s ability to use the facility. The replacement of the slab and ice plant is useful but money to fund that will be found at some point with or without the Olympics. The Olympics will not provide NEW opportunity for the public to engage in healthy activities.

The numbers I am quoting come from the two reports release by bidco discussing the cost and benefits of the upgraded facilities. In the first report it assumed a fieldhouse would be built and included 40 million for an ice plant and Olympic upgrades so I assume the delta between the Olympic fieldhouse and the useful fieldhouse is 40 million. In the second report it identifies they legacy infrastructure value though poorly defines the housing component. My 500 million - 700 million of useful infrastructure is my count of things that Inwould be supportive of spending money on. Your list for that may vary and I’m certainly open to discussion on it.

The federal dollars spent on the olympics does not lead to legacy infrastructure. The provincial dollars will come out of other infrastructure dollars available to Calgary. So even if you believe the myopic argument we still pay $ for $ for every piece of infrastructure we build. So unless every piece of infrastructure is getting maximum value the games are a loser. There is no way you can convince the public should fund a new lift and hill at Nakiska.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Muta

I never said that. I just agreed that more recreation and sport facilities, in general, contribute to the overall health of the general population, which in turn, helps to reduce the burden on the healthcare system. I hope you believe that too, because it's true.

I 100% agree that recreation/sports facilities are important. The existing facilities in the city are a joke, Edmonton is kicking our ass in that regard. We could definitely use new useful sport infrastructure for activities people actually like though, it's a volume game. A fieldhouse is useful, and needed. Upgraded sliding facilities are not, they're not popular, haven't been in the 30 years they've existed, and to be honest I don't know much of an exercise they are.

But the point remains that we can fund the recreation centers we want/need cheaper than having this completely unnecessary intermediate step of the Olympics, and the math on that isn't especially hard. When the Province announced that it was only funding 700M instead of 1B that's now 300M additional cost that falls to the City. Even just that 300M that's suddenly on our ledger would get us the fieldhouse and all the maintenace capital COP/Winsport/Olympic Oval would need for decades, and probably then some. So basically in my mind the only piece of infrastructure that is actually needed from the list of goodies the BidCo promised us is completely funded just from the first (of probably many) additional costs that will have to borne by the City, which is a pretty damning indictment of this whole process.

[Flamenspiel]

^^If you want to save money that's fine and I agree(Status quo, minimize spending and taxes), but don't sell a false bag of goods that we can spend or procure the money another way. Its just not going to happen.

You say "Edmonton is kicking our ass..". Its because they approve these projects in Edmonton. ie World Cup(twice now), Atheletics, and other global events. Without these events there is no budget for these things, city, federal or provincial.

[DiracSpike]

I'm saying build it, but we can build it ourselves (City of Calgary) for cheaper. Just the 300M decrease from the Province that we now have to cover for the Olympics can pay for the fieldhouse, the math is pretty self evident on that.

[Wormius]

This is all government funding. Are any private stakeholders, eg) Flames, going to contribute? It’s in their best interest to get a new arena. If it goes the way it currently seems like it might, they will get to inherit an upgraded Saddledome.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Wormius

This is all government funding. Are any private stakeholders, eg) Flames, going to contribute? It’s in their best interest to get a new arena. If it goes the way it currently seems like it might, they will get to inherit an upgraded Saddledome.

The proposed Olympic upgrades to the Dome are minute.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Wormius

This is all government funding. Are any private stakeholders, eg) Flames, going to contribute? It’s in their best interest to get a new arena. If it goes the way it currently seems like it might, they will get to inherit an upgraded Saddledome.

If there isn’t a new arena proposal included in the games bid pre-referendum the flames are idiots. Next week I bet we see ty flames and city have worked out an arena deal contingent on winning the Olympics.

[Jacks]

Hopefully someone from the city reads this stuff, still looking for this info. Hopefully they'll release this once the Feds clarfy their funding.
Total costs $xxx
- Revenue/IOC $xxx
- Federal $xxx
- Provincial $xxx
= Total cost to city $xxx

- Expenses we will still incur even if we don't host
- Preplanned expenses (eg. fieldhouse)

= Total new expense for the city $xxx
Then compare that number to what we would get in long term benefits and infrastructure. I'm guessing that it would be worth it looking at it like that but don't know for sure.

A new arena will be an absolute must if they want to win a referendum. Add that cost to the top number and subract the Flames portion off.

[temple5]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Hopefully someone from the city reads this stuff, still looking for this info. Hopefully they'll release this once the Feds clarfy their funding.
Total costs $xxx
- Revenue/IOC $xxx
- Federal $xxx
- Provincial $xxx
= Total cost to city $xxx

- Expenses we will still incur even if we don't host
- Preplanned expenses (eg. fieldhouse)

= Total new expense for the city $xxx
Then compare that number to what we would get in long term benefits and infrastructure. I'm guessing that it would be worth it looking at it like that but don't know for sure.

A new arena will be an absolute must if they want to win a referendum. Add that cost to the top number and subract the Flames portion off.

I would love to watch some of these evens live but I vote NO! The olympics should just go away IMO. New arena is not in the funding plans (doesnt mean there wouldnt be one) and the Olympics is probably the last best chance for any time of public funds going toward a new arena for the Flames (other than a change in municipal governance).

Some of those things you dont need anyone to answer. Bid expectation is each level of government commits 1B. Province has commited up to 700M (down from an expected 1B).

Math would then indicate the City will be on the hook for an additional 300M (1.3B total). Just for comparison the province committed 1.5B for the Greenline expansion (without a vote) which should tell you all you need know about Olympic funding.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4543088/a...y-olympic-bid/

[Northendzone]

i am surprised at how many people seems to have faith in the committee's estimate of the price of the games. I am thinking the real cost of the games will be closer to $10B

as a reminder, japan thought the upcoming games would cost $7B however the last report I read suggested the price tag was getting closer to $24B.

I also wonder how we can provide security for around the same cost as they did in 2010. Do security people not get pay increases?

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i am surprised at how many people seems to have faith in the committee's estimate of the price of the games. I am thinking the real cost of the games will be closer to $10B

But why? Because other cities add on to their bids and it exceeds the budget?
Right now we have a brand new library, several road/bridge upgrades, a transit system etc all coming in on time and budget.

Yet, people automatically assume because this is for the Olympic Games it will automatically double in cost? The bid already provides over $1B (20%) in contingency planning, what if that isn't even needed?

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I also wonder how we can provide security for around the same cost as they did in 2010. Do security people not get pay increases?

Technology has improved over the past 8 years and will continue to improve, driving costs down. Tokyo will have security technology that wasn't even considered in 2010 let alone 2016.

The example was given where the security costs for the G8 Summit in Kananaskis were much higher in 2002 than they were for this summer (16 years later) in La Malbaie, Quebec.

The location was different and technology was very different.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i am surprised at how many people seems to have faith in the committee's estimate of the price of the games. I am thinking the real cost of the games will be closer to $10B

as a reminder, japan thought the upcoming games would cost $7B however the last report I read suggested the price tag was getting closer to $24B.

I also wonder how we can provide security for around the same cost as they did in 2010. Do security people not get pay increases?

Because we aren’t in any regional conflicts like we were back then with Afganistan.

By the way, the Winter Olympics are smaller than the summer Olympics. Just because Japan wants to go overboard with spending, doesn’t mean we have to to have a successful Olympics.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Still no confirmed federal commitment with just a bit more than two weeks left before the plebiscite, the next four years of budgets for the City are not being released until the day after the plebiscite (that doesn't trigger any alarm bells to the Yes supporters? Not even a little?), the IOC resorting to propaganda videos to trick people, the BidCo CEO appearing increasingly desperate the past few days.

Surely even the staunchest Yes supporters will admit this process has been horrifically handled. If this passes it's not going to be because of the quality of the Yes side, it will be in spite of it. So I sure hope when this fails the No side doesn't get trashed, not their fault the Yes side has been objectively terrible.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Right now we have a brand new library, several road/bridge upgrades, a transit system etc all coming in on time and budget

In what world is our transit system expansion coming in on time and on budget? For every on time and budget you can find there are hospitals and roads and bridges that are no where near on time or budget. Add a hard time deadline and you have very little chance of being either.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

In what world is our transit system expansion coming in on time and on budget? For every on time and budget you can find there are hospitals and roads and bridges that are no where near on time or budget. Add a hard time deadline and you have very little chance of being either.

Please cite major recent (post 2010) City of Calgary projects that have not come in on time and on budget.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Please cite major recent (post 2010) City of Calgary projects that have not come in on time and on budget.

Please cite any Olympics that has come in on time and on budget.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Please cite any Olympics that has come in on time and on budget.

Vancouver
Calgary 88

Salt Lake City olympics had a profit of 56 million U.S.
Beijing Olympics had a profit of 146 million U.S.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Vancouver
Calgary 88

Nope
Nope

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Vancouver
Calgary 88

LA did in 1988 as well, in fact they made profit. On the Vancouver games there is a bit of a debate on weather to include infrastructure spending. Certainly the Richmond Speed Skating venue was covered into a great multi purpose facility, the sea to sky highway went from a death trap to a reasonable method of transportation and they added a great LRT from the airport to downtown.