Flames' Pride Night slotted for March 28 vs. LA

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

Honestly, don't think this is worth the Drama. People have a right to identify and express themselves however they want. No one should be forced to do anything. I'm sure If I had to wear some sort of Religious gear I'd be a little uncomfortable if I was an atheist.

Religion as a rebuttal. This night gets better and better.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Religion as a rebuttal. This night gets better and better.

I equated things I didn't use anything as a rebuttal. Take a reading comprehension course.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

I equated things I didn't use anything as a rebuttal. Take a reading comprehension course.

You rebutted the argument against wearing pride jerseys during pride nights against wearing religious garb during some imagined religious night.

I'm all good on comprehension. Maybe you want to consider a rhetorics course?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Good, goood. Keep the squabbling here.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by Yamer

You rebutted the argument against wearing pride jerseys during pride nights against wearing religious garb during some imagined religious night.

I'm all good on comprehension. Maybe you want to consider a rhetorics course?

Do you believe it is acceptable, ethical or even legal to mandate wearing pride jerseys?

Mandating acceptance doesn't lead to actual acceptance. True acceptance has to happen organically.

Would you have the same stance if there was some sort of Pro-Israel night as a result of the recent unrest?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Good, goood. Keep the squabbling here.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

Do you believe it is acceptable, ethical or even legal to mandate wearing pride jerseys?

Mandating acceptance doesn't lead to actual acceptance. True acceptance has to happen organically.

Would you have the same stance if there was some sort of Pro-Israel night as a result of the recent unrest?

1. No, generally, across the board. However, it does say something when someone chooses not to support something, which is the case here.

2. No, true acceptance absolutely does not have to happen organically. Either way, that has nothing to do with absolute acceptance. We are evaluating an individual's actions regarding a social/civil movement.

3. Religion isn't an applicable comparison.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I was kind of shocked by the way people talked to Yamer and butterfly in that thread. Really disgusting behaviour.

Pretty sure it was mostly coming from the place of keeping the trade discussion to the hockey aspects of it, because the other stuff kind of bogs it down when the guy was literally just acquired not an hour earlier, and Flames fans deserve some fun and celebration amidst a tough year (couple of years).

It's not that those concerns don't have a place, it's that the place wasn't then & there. Better left for a separate thread like this rather than taking over a generally positive and fun thread for hockey chatter.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Also want to clarify that by "the squabbling" I mean the back and forth that was derailing the other thread. Not meant to be taken as discrediting those with legitimate concerns on this issue (however I'm not sure how founded those concerns are since Blaster also claimed there was a misunderstanding around the alleged issue with Kuzmenko?).

I have no idea though since I never followed that story. Carry on.

[FanIn80]

God, I'm so fckn tired of people with the sensitivity threshold of a two year old. Honestly, if someone either wanting or not wanting to wear a jersey is enough to get you going, you've had yourself a pretty easy life.

[gvitaly]

I don't agree with the smear campaign lead against Kuzmenko here (and in the other close thread).

I think it is misguided at best. I also don't appreciate the constant attempt to suggest that if someone doesn't support pride night, then he/she must be a bigot, or needs to simply educate him/herself. It comes across as condescending at best.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't support gender transition treatment for minors. Which is one of the issues I firmly disagree with the LGBTQ community about. And unfortunately, all those issues are grouped into one community, one night, and that's why I'm myself torn on supporting it.

I'm a firm believer that everyone should have the same rights, and that hockey is for everyone. I won't ever think less of a person, or treat a person differently just because they have a different gender, race, religion, appearance, or sexual preference.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I don't agree with the smear campaign lead against Kuzmenko here (and in the other close thread).

I think it is misguided at best. I also don't appreciate the constant attempt to suggest that if someone doesn't support pride night, then he/she must be a bigot, or needs to simply educate him/herself. It comes across as condescending at best.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't support gender transition treatment for minors. Which is one of the issues I firmly disagree with the LGBTQ community about. And unfortunately, all those issues are grouped into one community, one night, and that's why I'm myself torn on supporting it.

I'm a firm believer that everyone should have the same rights, and that hockey is for everyone. I won't ever think less of a person, or treat a person differently just because they have a different gender, race, religion, appearance, or sexual preference.

Makes about as much sense as not supporting gender non-transition for minors. It's not drugs or cigarettes or alcohol. It's health care.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Pretty sure it was mostly coming from the place of keeping the trade discussion to the hockey aspects of it, because the other stuff kind of bogs it down when the guy was literally just acquired not an hour earlier, and Flames fans deserve some fun and celebration amidst a tough year (couple of years).

It's not that those concerns don't have a place, it's that the place wasn't then & there. Better left for a separate thread like this rather than taking over a generally positive and fun thread for hockey chatter.

That argument I respect. I'm happy about the trade. Just flip this guy outta here for something shiny and we're good.

[FlamesAddiction]

Specifically in regards to Kuzmenko, the Canucks stated that after conversations with his family, he would not participate in the jersey promotion and they wouldn't comment on the details. Another Russian player mentioned that he wouldn't participate citing Russian laws that could affect him or his family back in Russia.

Zadorov participated and I think that showed courage and is one of the reasons I have a lot of respect for him. Other Russian players who didn't, I don't know how to feel about it without being in their shoes. Not everyone can have Zadorov sized balls. It's also worth mentioning that Zadorov has lived in North America since he was a teenager and is seeking American citizenship. His life network is largely based here.

I'm not going to assume the worst about about Kuzmenko for his decision because I don't know the rationale behind it. I think it's unfair to assume he hates gays, which is what it seemed like some people were trying to imply. He seems like a good guy in interviews and has supported other charities in Vancouver.

Personally, if all I had to do to help promote inclusion and LGBTQ+ causes was wear a jersey for 10 minutes, I'd do it in a heart beat, but I also have nothing at stake. I don't have to worry about family or friends being harassed because of it, or getting blacklisted in my home country because of it. Would I have the courage to risk it? I would like to think so, but I can't say for sure.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

God, I'm so fckn tired of people with the sensitivity threshold of a two year old. Honestly, if someone either wanting or not wanting to wear a jersey is enough to get you going, you've had yourself a pretty easy life.

Yeah, I am too.

We're allowed to dislike the main player the Flames got back for any number of reasons. Being told to shut up when we chime in on a discussion board shows that the ones acting like two year olds aren't the ones you think.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Specifically in regards to Kuzmenko, the Canucks stated that after conversations with his family, he would not participate in the jersey promotion and they wouldn't comment on the details. Another Russian player mentioned that he wouldn't participate citing Russian laws that could affect him or his family back in Russia.

Zadorov participated and I think that showed courage and is one of the reasons I have a lot of respect for him. Other Russian players who didn't, I don't know how to feel about it without being in their shoes. Not everyone can have Zadorov sized balls. It's also worth mentioning that Zadorov has lived in North America since he was a teenager and is seeking American citizenship. His life network is largely based here.

I'm not going to assume the worst about about Kuzmenko for his decision because I don't know the rationale behind it. I think it's unfair to assume he hates gays, which is what it seemed like some people were trying to imply. He seems like a good guy in interviews and has supported other charities in Vancouver.

Personally, if all I had to do to help promote inclusion and LGBTQ+ causes was wear a jersey for 10 minutes, I'd do it in a heart beat, but I also have nothing at stake. I don't have to worry about family or friends being harassed because of it, or getting blacklisted in my home country because of it. Would I have the courage to risk it? I would like to think so, but I can't say for sure.

I'll have to come back and thank this later, but just wanted to quote you and note that we can have a respectful discussion in this area without some of the vitriol of the trade thread.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Pretty sure it was mostly coming from the place of keeping the trade discussion to the hockey aspects of it, because the other stuff kind of bogs it down when the guy was literally just acquired not an hour earlier, and Flames fans deserve some fun and celebration amidst a tough year (couple of years).

It's not that those concerns don't have a place, it's that the place wasn't then & there. Better left for a separate thread like this rather than taking over a generally positive and fun thread for hockey chatter.

I understand the spirit of what you’re saying here, but we were 500+ posts into the thread and, if people really didn’t like it, they could’ve ignored it like we do with 99% of other in-threads topics we don’t feel like discussing.

People telling them to shut up, get lost, calling them losers, telling “the gays” how they should feel, etc, was over the top and completely unnecessary. It just became an opportunity for bigots to have a safe space to tell LGBTQ people and those who support them to #### off.

Originally Posted by gvitaly

…and that's why I'm myself torn on supporting it.

I'm a firm believer that everyone should have the same rights, and that hockey is for everyone. I won't ever think less of a person, or treat a person differently just because they have a different gender, race, religion, appearance, or sexual preference.

If the latter is true, then you shouldn’t have a problem taking part in Pride Night and there’s really nothing to be torn about.

And that’s without mentioning the ridiculousness of thinking you know better about what health care is best for someone than doctors, nurses, their parents, or even the individuals themselves.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

God, I'm so fckn tired of people with the sensitivity threshold of a two year old. Honestly, if someone either wanting or not wanting to wear a jersey is enough to get you going, you've had yourself a pretty easy life.

Yeah, those queers have it easy.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Yeah, those queers have it easy.

Living in Victoria I'd say they have it the same as everyone else.

[Yeah_Baby]

as a ghey myself stuff like Pride nights are part of the soup of society that's tied to the incredibly unresearched and not at all based in reality policy's that the GoA is rolling out.

Do I care more about the latter, yeah. But to think they're totally unrelated to each other is misguided.

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Living in Victoria I'd say they have it the same as everyone else.

They don't call it the Queen city for nothing.