Sutter is the problem

[Teroy]

[QUOTE=Naitix;8649389]There is no way the go into the next season with Sutter, Kadri and Huby still together. The easiest thing to do is get rid of Sutter and see if your highest paid forwards in franchise history can bounce back next season[/QUOTE]

And if he doesn't, everyone can bitch about the new coach.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

We will be replacing Sutter with Bednar and Cooper? Co-coaches or drawing straws for assistant?

Whoever can get here first gets Head Coach, the other gets assistant.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Naitix

There is no way the go into the next season with Sutter, Kadri and Huby still together. The easiest thing to do is get rid of Sutter and see if your highest paid forwards in franchise history can bounce back next season

I'd actually be ok with it. Either it is a total disaster or all 3 figure out how to move forward. It's a polarizing bet which is what this team needs.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I was at the dome and he looked bad all night. Not much more to say than that. He didn't deserve to be out there one bit.

Can anyone blame Huberdeau for not being Huberdeau? Imagine you are perhaps the best premiere playmaker in your sport and you get traded to a team with a miserable bastard of a coach that totally takes away your strength by implementing a boring low danger perimeter shooting system that doesn't fit the roster at all. This is a good team that Tre has built but it is a skilled group, a playmaking group, a team that would thrive on possessing the puck more and waiting for high danger chances. They are not a giant forward group that can just park their asses in front of the goalie while D men rip low danger point shots all game. I think this team can absolutely be a SC threat but certainly not with this coach. I am not even saying Sutter is a bad coach, he is a terrible fit though for this roster.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Part of me hopes they luck themselves into a rebuild.

Assume bad luck.
Bring back most of the team.
Have a miserable season.
Sell six impact UFAs at the deadline.

Seems like the quickest way to a reset.

Ugh, I'm sick and tired of this team taking forever in being proactive.

I wish they would start it this off season. Maybe pick up another early round pick or two in this supposed strong draft. And then carry through trading other assets at the deadline.

This season is a signal that the roster isn't well suited for cup contention in the next year or two. Take the initiative to truly focus on building through the draft, and have the team possibly in a strong competitive spot by the time the next arena opens.

Ownership gotta give this market more faith in it handling a rebuild. This purgatory state is what's turning fans off right now.

[Infinit47]

I was 100% on team dump Sutter, but seeing how Kadri completely quit on the few games before tonight really rubbed me the wrong way.

I think they likely still need to get rid of Sutter, but at this point I almost want Sutter to come back just to stick it to the players who completely quit.

[DSIM420]

It isn't the coaches fault. These players don't hate to lose and don't give their best effort night after night. There a a handful of players who are out there giving it their all, but there are too many passengers that are the problem.

[Hack&Lube]

This feels like the classic version of the room tuning out Sutter which has happened at every place he's coached, even LA.

Eventually his style wears out it its welcome. Some of his golden boys like Toffoli and the LA 4th liners will never do wrong in his eyes but the rest turn into whipping boys. He stubbornly sticks to rewarding ice time based on how he feels about you instead of trying to put the best players out there in critical moments to give them a chance to be a hero and raise their confidence and get out of a rut.

Eventually the room turns on him with his repeated digs on players both in and outside of the room. There was the whole "taking a s***" thing on Huberdeau and the story from Warrener where he was working out at the dome after a painful playoff series loss and Sutter walks up to him saying "so now you start working out?". Warrener stopped working out at the dome after that.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DSIM420

It isn't the coaches fault. These players don't hate to lose and don't give their best effort night after night. There a a handful of players who are out there giving it their all, but there are too many passengers that are the problem.

I disagree.

You don't outshoot and control the puck the way this team has without working hard. They work hard. Effort is not a problem.

Skill level is a problem. System is a problem.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ugh. With the season on the line that's pretty inexcusable.
I don't get it.

More specifically, as someone mentioned, the goalie tweaked something and removed himself from the game with about 6 min left. It was a surprise, not even obvious what happened

Quick comes in, ice cold, and the faceoff is in the Vegas zone.

That’s a key shift to which Bingo refers

Sutter sends out the 4th line

If you opened your door, I’m sure you could have heard ‘wtf’ in unison across the city

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I disagree.

You don't outshoot and control the puck the way this team has without working hard. They work hard. Effort is not a problem.

Skill level is a problem. System is a problem.

Sutter is trying to brute force a win through hard work and shot volume. We've seen countless games where we outshoot our opponents and still lose.

The quality of our shots is just not good enough and the corresponding drop in goaltending performance in critical moments has caused a large proportion of our loses this year.

[redmile04]

[QUOTE=Teroy;8649396]

Originally Posted by Naitix

There is no way the go into the next season with Sutter, Kadri and Huby still together. The easiest thing to do is get rid of Sutter and see if your highest paid forwards in franchise history can bounce back next season[/QUOTE]

And if he doesn't, everyone can bitch about the new coach.

And they will.. like they do with every other coach.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ugh. With the season on the line that's pretty inexcusable.
I don't get it.

It is annoying, I agree with you.

I'm just as annoyed at the play of certain players with the season on the line. A younger coach wouldn't have the balls to do what Sutter did which maybe is a good thing. Everyone should always have a little fear for their job. Maybe not enough people involved with this team feel that way.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It is annoying, I agree with you.

I'm just as annoyed at the play of certain players with the season on the line. A younger coach wouldn't have the balls to do what Sutter did which maybe is a good thing. Everyone should always have a little fear for their job. Maybe not enough people involved with this team feel that way.

I disagree with that.

Everyone should have a little coach/boss-imposed fear? No, that's bull!@#$. That's a bad working environment and decidedly NOT a good team environment. Teams are at their best when everyone is working together. You hear young players say it of good coaches - they work with you, and you don't have to worry that making a mistake will lead to you getting benched, so you're free to play the game.

A younger coach wouldn't have the balls to neuter and crush the players with the two biggest contracts in franchise history? We should get a younger coach.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Well you also have to remember AZ might have two top-10 picks. Ottawa is almost certainly going to miss the playoffs by a significant amount. Aaaaand I'd rather have Cooley than Jiricek ... it's close.

I'm not saying that Jiricek is the best prospect on both teams, but it's the defence part that Arizona is missing. IMO Columbus is further ahead in the area. Both teams will be loaded at forward.

#1 Columbus 2023 will also be the best prospect either team has and most likely be a franchise superstar. Unless Arizona wins the lottery, then they will be some good. But Ottawa's pick is lottery protected so Columbus has a much better chance at top 2 and 100% at top 3 unless they move up the standings.

Both teams are in a much better spot than the Flames though. We are trending to be the next SJ Sharks here soon. They need to make some good moves this off season and they can't be going into the season with players not signed and still on the team. Sure the return could be better at the trade deadline but the mid first rounder vs early first rounder is what kills us every year. If we rebuild this off season, I'll be good with it but still be a bit bitter that we just didn't do it last off season. This draft is way better then next years draft.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Part of me hopes they luck themselves into a rebuild.

Assume bad luck.
Bring back most of the team.
Have a miserable season.
Sell six impact UFAs at the deadline.

Seems like the quickest way to a reset.

The main problem with that is that selling 6 UFA's at the deadline will drive down the price of UFA's at the deadline. I hope they actually plan for once and go through the guys whose contracts expire at the end of next year and are UFA's

Lindholm
Backlund
Toffoli
Hanifin
Tanev
Zadorov

And decide which two (minimum) they want to trade in the summer for young assets. I am almost indifferent on which two they want to trade. I suspect you get more for Tanev/Zadorov at the deadline, so it is probably two of the top 4 on that list.

I think at the draft or in the summer any of those top 4 get you a First Round Pick, a top prospect and if you must a servicable NHL player (although I would personally prefer another prospect). If you actually had a plan you could possibly eat a little salary if it meant getting a better package.

After this year there will be at least 2 good teams in the East that do not make it out of the first round. There will be a number of good teams that may not even make the conference finals. I suspect there will be buyers out there for players that they think can help them go deeper in 2024.

The Flames have to move at least one player anyway as they only have 1.3 million to sign 5 players right now for next year.

Whoever you do not sell over the summer have a plan to sell at the deadline.

[MacDaddy77]

Would like to see Vladar the rest of the way to try and maximize his trade value for draft day. Need to make a spot for Wolf next year anyway

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ugh. With the season on the line that's pretty inexcusable.
I don't get it.

His methodology is that the 4th line was playing the hardest so they deserved to be on the ice. The issue being that this wasn't a game where they held the lead or were tied late so the merit thing has to go out the door. They needed a goal to get into OT and even if the 4th line was getting some good zone time throughout the game you absolutely need your best shooters and passers on the ice at the end of the game because the statistical odds are far better they could get the tying goal than the 4th line. Winning the game must come before sending messages to players that may have not been having their best game. If I was a GM in this situation where people's jobs could be on the line if they miss the playoffs this would be disappointing to see from your head coach.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I disagree.

You don't outshoot and control the puck the way this team has without working hard. They work hard. Effort is not a problem.

Skill level is a problem. System is a problem.

Yep. my guess its the wrong system for the type of players that were acquired last summer

Flames for sure need another skilled winger

Team just struggled to badly to make the case of acquiring one

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I was 100% on team dump Sutter, but seeing how Kadri completely quit on the few games before tonight really rubbed me the wrong way.

I think they likely still need to get rid of Sutter, but at this point I almost want Sutter to come back just to stick it to the players who completely quit.

I might do both to be honest.

If there is a deal for Kadri then I think you have to look at it.

But even if you move Kadri I still think Sutter is not the right coach for where the Flames need to go in terms of incorporating more youth over the next two years.