Pentagon releases UFO videos

[Lanny_McDonald]

[bdubbs]

I, for one, welcome our new hypersonic overlords.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Well that's just common sense.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Military in origin, dating back to before flight was even possible. Sure, I guess you could make that argument. Doesn't hold much water, but sure.



What's plausible based on what? Your interpretation of things? Or that of others? I would think that after the past month the scientific community has faced because of new data about our perceptions of the universe that people would maybe reconsider how certain we are about things? We don't know, it is beyond our understanding, and we should consider all possibilities. What we do know is the government and military have acknowledged the activity in question is not of their doing, they have concerns about it from a national security perspective, and have created programs to observe and investigate from the terrestrial and extraterrestrial perspectives. They are taking on all plausible explanations to take on this challenge. Swamp gas and ball lightning will certainly be considered, but likely ruled out by these government agencies. They have for years and the body of evidence from accidental and intentional disclosure is there to support that claim.

Is there any publicly available literature on UAP siting increases during wars in the pre-flight period? This would be interesting to read.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I would recommend reviewing the work of Jerome Clark who has collected sighting information, compiling and explaining the UFO phenomena in all its aspects—the sightings, close encounters, investigations, debates, symposia, personalities, hoaxes, debunking campaigns, conspiracy theories and historical context for sightings. He has a book focused on the subject of pre-20th century signings, The Emergence of UFOs 543 B.C. – 1900, which includes the background and context for the reams of declassified UFO-related documents that have been released in the United States, Brazil, and other countries as part of the Disclosure Project.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I would recommend reviewing the work of Jerome Clark who has collected sighting information, compiling and explaining the UFO phenomena in all its aspects—the sightings, close encounters, investigations, debates, symposia, personalities, hoaxes, debunking campaigns, conspiracy theories and historical context for sightings. He has a book focused on the subject of pre-20th century signings, The Emergence of UFOs 543 B.C. – 1900, which includes the background and context for the reams of declassified UFO-related documents that have been released in the United States, Brazil, and other countries as part of the Disclosure Project.

And before I do this, this will specifically address the statement that these sightings are higher in times of war?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Yes and no. I don't recall anyone saying sightings went up, just that sightings during war are very common. Clark has collected historical sighting information from around the globe and many encounters are narratives from the military or during military campaigns. I'm pretty sure it was Clark's book where he recounted a narrative from Alexander the Great about a sighting during wartime. It's historical narratives, and much of our history is focused on wartime events, so you kind of get the gist of what to expect. Don't expect a modern structured report as these are documented narratives rather than critical analysis.

[PepsiFree]

Wasn’t the Alexander the Great thing already debunked? As far as I know there was actually zero evidence of it in historical texts, it was just a repeated modern day story based off, at best, a bad interpretation.

I can’t see how that would still be compelling.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Wasn’t the Alexander the Great thing already debunked? As far as I know there was actually zero evidence of it in historical texts, it was just a repeated modern day story based off, at best, a bad interpretation.

Respectfully, "as far as you know"? Is that just a google search, or do you actually "know" anything about the incident and the reference to the events? I'm skeptical the Siege of Tyre or the history of a Macedonian king is high on your reading list.

Would it matter that Ptolemy and Alessandro il Grande referenced the event in separate narratives - one in Greek and one in Italian - but in similar fashions? This is likely the progenitor for this narrative, and where the account originated. There is a great weakness in the debunking community, language being their first barrier to knowledge. Inability to do quality translation is a problem - we see that in all walks of life - so I can understand why the debunking crowd would jump on the fact the only reference they can find comes from someone in the 1950s who did not reference their work, which is then repeated and referenced by others.

The debunking community also has a real problem with oral narratives as part of cultural traditions. Many stories are handed down generation to generation which is how information has been recorded in some cultures. The indigenous peoples of North America have similar accounts as do the indigenous peoples of Mesoamerica and South America. Do we discount these accounts as well because they were not properly recorded to the debunking community's whims? Therein lies the larger part of the problem. The debunking community is quick to discount events and not put in the work to verify their own debunking claims. "I can't find evidence of it, so it must not have happened" is the rallying cry of the debunking set, yet many of them of not equipped to take on the debunking role.

I can’t see how that would still be compelling.

What exactly would be compelling to you? It seems video evidence and military/government admissions is not compelling enough. A rich history of events from cultures across the globe is not compelling enough. What would be compelling to you?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

What exactly would be compelling to you? It seems video evidence and military/government admissions is not compelling enough. A rich history of events from cultures across the globe is not compelling enough. What would be compelling to you?

Question? is this video evidence and military/government admissions compelling enough for you to say it's alien from another star system?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Would it matter that Ptolemy and Alessandro il Grande referenced the event in separate narratives - one in Greek and one in Italian - but in similar fashions? This is likely the progenitor for this narrative, and where the account originated.

Ok, can you quote the relevant texts here then?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Question? is this video evidence and military/government admissions compelling enough for you to say it's alien from another star system?

Of course we all want incredible video proof of these things, but that which is public just isn't there - yet. I would like to believe that upcoming whistleblowers will be allowed to discuss previously classified evidence or data with impunity, as the legislation (particularly) is getting in place for that to happen. I think the material evidence will follow these testimonies, as soon as they can be put in front of Congress with the right context.

Of course, there is various types of evidence out there, ranging from document historical encounters and anecdotes to hard data (e.g. the Ukrainian study spoken of earlier). Personally I tend to lean in on the more credible voices in the community, including people like Dr. Gary Nolan of Stanford University, an immunologist and cancer researcher who is studying anomolous materials and their effects on the brain and human body. There are also more political voices on the subject such as former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Christopher Mellon, former Senator Harry Reid, and former White House Chief of Staff and current Energy Advisor to the President John Podesta who have publicly commented on disclosure and push for the disclosure process.

That smoking gun evidence is probably very complex and political material to extract, and it could take years to lift or track it back to where it may be stored with current bureaucratic mechanisms, assuming no extraordinary Congressional action. The current AARO is designed to accumulate, identify and report on such data, so it's a great start (or continuation of work, depending on who you ask).

Also, I would broaden the "little green men from Mars" definition. This could very well be something that also lives here, has for a very long time, and exists in a way we just don't understand enough about yet (including in our oceans, hence why 'transmedium' in included in the vernacular now). I also think it would be helpful to listen to and respect the communities that have traditions, philosophies, and insight based on these beliefs, such as those of some Native Americans tribes and their belief in Star People. It's probably best to paint a sociological picture as much as a technical one for a whole-of-view insight.

The stigma will persist in all of this though. Careers have been diminished and ruined because of this topic. That's going to be an ongoing challenge.

[Ozy_Flame]

Here's a fun story from the Herald yesterday on Alberta-based UAP sightings. I like the fact that non-tabloid media is willing to publish more pieces like this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570400898773385217

Even Canadian politicians are trying to draw more attention to it. Conservative MP for Brandon-Souris Larry Maguire recently wrote about the issue earlier this year:

Larry Maguire: UAPs are real, and Canada should take them seriously

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Question? is this video evidence and military/government admissions compelling enough for you to say it's alien from another star system?

No. Not confidently. Is it compelling enough to consider that possibility? Yes. We don't have any idea what these things are. We do know that they perform way beyond the capacity of any man-made machine, so we have to consider the potential they are not terrestrial in nature. At least the government and military are taking that approach so maybe we should as well. After all, NASA has been soft-selling this since 2015, with 2025 as a probable timeline for discovery, so we might already have our answer. The amount of information leaking out from the government and the information sharing coming our way seems to align with that schedule. Who knows? That's the thing. We don't know, but there sure is a lot of leaning in one direction of late. James Webb sure came along at the right time (coincidence?).

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Ok, can you quote the relevant texts here then?

Nope, Mr. Google. If it were anyone else I would, but I'm tired of your games. I've given you the starting place. Do some exploration and reading for yourself. It's high time YOU did some work rather than relying on others to do the work for you. You might actually learn something along the way. Enjoy your time at the library and consider this a learning experience!

[Lanny_McDonald]

That Herald article is both cool and surprising. Never would have thought of Alberta as a hot bed spot for sightings. I guess there's a lot of cranks in Alberta. ;-)

[Fuzz]

It makes sense, we have lots of clear sky nights.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Nope, Mr. Google. If it were anyone else I would, but I'm tired of your games. I've given you the starting place. Do some exploration and reading for yourself. It's high time YOU did some work rather than relying on others to do the work for you. You might actually learn something along the way. Enjoy your time at the library and consider this a learning experience!

What games? I would think if you could easily reference these things you could easily share the relevant pieces of text.

You’ll notice over the last page or so you’re the only one acting childish and treating this like some juvenile game. The rest of us are trying to have a normal conversation. I’ve noticed you do this when asked for information you don’t actually have or know, which if you would say that it would be a lot easier than “I’m not telling you because I don’t like you.” Please, Lanny. You’re an adult man (apparently). Act like one. If you don’t have the information then that’s fine.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Here's a fun story from the Herald yesterday on Alberta-based UAP sightings. I like the fact that non-tabloid media is willing to publish more pieces like this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570400898773385217

Even Canadian politicians are trying to draw more attention to it. Conservative MP for Brandon-Souris Larry Maguire recently wrote about the issue earlier this year:

Larry Maguire: UAPs are real, and Canada should take them seriously

I mean we do have a UFO landing pad for them in St. Paul. Maybe they are just making sure it isnt a trap?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkg3...ufos-over-kyiv

To me, this lends a lot of support to the theory these recent UFO's are terrestrial in origin, unless you think aliens would be focuses on watching us shoot each other, which I guess is a possibility. But isn't it more likely they are American, providing intelligence to Ukraine? What better way for the US to test these out and use them than this? They could also be China, watching, but I'd lean more towards American.

What tech does the US (or anyone on Earth) have that is capable of travelling 15km per second?

“Phantoms are observed in the troposphere at distances up to 10 - 12 km. We estimate their size from 3 to 12 meters and speeds up to 15 km/s.”

Edit: For perspective, you'd have to get up to Mach 43 (that's 43 times the speed of sound), in order to travel 14749m/s (14.749km/s). Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think humans have even accomplished Mach 10 yet, never mind Mach 43.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

What tech does the US (or anyone on Earth) have that is capable of travelling 15km per second?

That's what blew me away. That's 5x as fast as the greatest unmanned airspeed ever recorded (10,500km/hr), a flight which lasted 10 seconds.

At 15 km/s (54,000 km/h) that object could circle the globe in 45 mins. In the US, it could fly coast to coast in 5 mins.