Alberta Politics Thread

[CaptainCrunch]

Everything that's made, shipped, driven, grown, viewed and called on is going to increase in price due to the Carbon tax, and its almost going to be like the old MST where you won't really know what you're paying, they can just shrug their shoulders at the price increase and say, sorry dude Carbon Tax.

And most cases there will be multiple instances of cost increases before it reaches your hands as a consumer.

So we built this thinga majig (Carbon tax) shipped it (Carbon tax) put it in the store (carbon tax) and sold it to you (carbon tax)

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Everything that's made, shipped, driven, grown, viewed and called on is going to increase in price due to the Carbon tax, and its almost going to be like the old MST where you won't really know what you're paying, they can just shrug their shoulders at the price increase and say, sorry dude Carbon Tax.

And most cases there will be multiple instances of cost increases before it reaches your hands as a consumer.

So we built this thinga majig (Carbon tax) shipped it (Carbon tax) put it in the store (carbon tax) and sold it to you (carbon tax)

Isn't this the whole idea behind a carbon tax? It creates incentives for consumers to consume products with a smaller carbon footprint (which will become less expensive relative to products with larger carbon footprints). Not sure why some are treating this consequence as either a surprise or a flaw in the idea?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Isn't this the whole idea behind a carbon tax? It creates incentives for consumers to consume products with a smaller carbon footprint (which will become less expensive relative to products with larger carbon footprints). Not sure why some are treating this consequence as either a surprise or a flaw in the idea?

Fair enough, but its really dishonest for the government to come out and state that its going to cost families $450 bucks a year.

In that first year families are going to get gutted. On top of that with essentials like food for example how are we supposed to reduce our consumption of that?

Realistically when the government talked about no carbon tax during the election and then pumped this thing into place which was a tax grab, its a significant enough issue that it should be decided by referendum.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Isn't this the whole idea behind a carbon tax? It creates incentives for consumers to consume products with a smaller carbon footprint (which will become less expensive relative to products with larger carbon footprints). Not sure why some are treating this consequence as either a surprise or a flaw in the idea?

I'll build a new house with wood shipped by smaller trains..

[CaptainCrunch]

Don't forget to buy your milk from a non farting cow farm.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Slava

Come on. I don't love the legislation,, but that's just fear-mongering. There are enough legitimate questions about the plan, nevermind the police-state accusations.

I didn't come up with the idea of incarceration but I have seen it posted in a few places and was wondering how legit that claim is.

[northcrunk]

This just seems like just another way for the government to tax us to death. I'm sick of it.

[Locke]

Hey, you know what a great plan is during economic uncertainty? Jacking up the price on mostly unavoidable costs of living.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hey, you know what a great plan is during economic uncertainty? Jacking up the price on mostly unavoidable costs of living.

#NotleydoingNotleythings

[Locke]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

#NotleydoingNotleythings

Having trouble making ends meet? Buckle up...

I am not looking forward to seeing what happens to my utility bills both at home and at my office.

[IliketoPuck]

Locke, you and your monstrous carbon footprint need to be reigned in. It's disgraceful is what it is.

Hopefully this new tax, followed by a PST, and an increase in the carbon levy in a couple years will curb your rampant appetite to consume evil carbon.

Oh hi, China, I see you standing there smirking at Alberta. Are you still building all those coal plants? You are? But I thought the carbon tax would impact global carbon emissions and combat green house gases? No? Oh, it's just making us look like naive apologists. Gotcha.

Well in that case, China, would you like to buy some coke from our oil sands facilities?

Cool. Carry on.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Isn't this the whole idea behind a carbon tax? It creates incentives for consumers to consume products with a smaller carbon footprint (which will become less expensive relative to products with larger carbon footprints). Not sure why some are treating this consequence as either a surprise or a flaw in the idea?

Given how Notley is handling it, it seems like the goal is revenue generation first and foremost. And so long as she chooses not to make the tax revenue neutral, she's going to face that accusation.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So we built this thinga majig (Carbon tax) shipped it (Carbon tax) put it in the store (carbon tax) and sold it to you (carbon tax)

You can say the same thing for every emission control regulations we have. Should we start removing catalytic converters from new cars? Or should we let coal plants release as much SO2 and NOx.

[Fuzz]

Is there any evidence from places that have a carbon tax like ours that consumption and greenhouses gases have been reduced? Did they base this policy on that, or ideology?

Because the goal is reduced greenhouse gases, right? If that is the goal, I hope they have some numbers for that. So far I've just heard how much it is going to cost, which is kinda funny given what the goal is supposed to be.

[Fuzz]

Sometimes I answer my own questions....

We find that despite significant price increases for some fueltypes, the carbon tax effect on emissions was modest. The taxes contributed to a reduction in onshore
emissions of only 1.5 percent and total emissions of 2.3 percent

Hrmm, that's rather small.
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~carsonvs/papers/632.pdf

The tax covers most types of fossil fuels. Since it came in, B.C.’s total use of those fuels has dropped by 16.1% (2008-13). By contrast, in the rest of Canada fuel use went up by 3% over that time.

http://business.financialpost.com/fp...ax-shift-works

Wonder if anything else contributed? What sectors saw the largest decrease? Consumers or industry?

Accordingly, the European environmental tax reforms had by 2004 caused reductions in greenhouse gas emissions of 3.1% on average for the six member countries examined, with the largest fall recorded for Finland (5.9%).

https://sapiens.revues.org/1072

along different lines...

The tax breaks were missing in large part because Obama wanted a plan that would not require congressional approval (which he will not get). But a new congressionally mandated study by the National Academy of Sciences concludes that extending the sort of energy-related tax preferences that are already scattered throughout the Revenue Code would do little or nothing to reduce greenhouse gasses.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/.../#3ff3b49011d0

What I found in admittedly a brief search is...not much. I would have that it was an easy question to Google and find lots of definitive answers. Is nobody studying this? Seams like something you would want to know...
3.1% isn't all that big either.

[Fuzz]

Ah, so someone actually looked into BC's a bit more and the results are much less positive:
http://behindthenumbers.ca/2016/03/0...cs-carbon-tax/

So from what I have found, there isn't much of an environmental case to be made for a carbon tax.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Isn't this the whole idea behind a carbon tax? It creates incentives for consumers to consume products with a smaller carbon footprint (which will become less expensive relative to products with larger carbon footprints). Not sure why some are treating this consequence as either a surprise or a flaw in the idea?

So the solution is we consume less electricity and gas? I guess heating homes and cooking are bourgeois luxuries.

Can't even go to wood heating, that's being taxed and regulated by some provinces now too.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Originally Posted by Locke

Having trouble making ends meet? Buckle up...

I am not looking forward to seeing what happens to my utility bills both at home and at my office.

Don't worry, you can always reduce your utility bills by getting rid of your refrigerator, freezer, washer, dryer, and oven.

Then you can replace your windows to get your natural gas down. It might take 20 years to pay off though.

[puckedoff]

Did cities end up getting an exemption from this? If not, have to tack on a few bucks to the property taxes I'm sure. Hopefully they'll turn down the heat at hospitals and schools.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Did cities end up getting an exemption from this? If not, have to tack on a few bucks to the property taxes I'm sure. Hopefully they'll turn down the heat at hospitals and schools.

No exemption, you will see this on your property tax bill for sure.