Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[dino7c]

I don't think Tre was trying to tank the Flames he did seem a little reckless though...not much concern for the future when he knew he wouldn't be here.

Now he inherits the Leafs AFTER a rebuild is done and is walking their leading scorer to free agency

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Flames swooping in to sign Marner after Tre fails to get him signed would be fitting.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Tkachuk actually wasn't great in the playoffs for the Flames.
2018-2019: 2-1 in 5 games
2019-2020: 1-1 in 6 games
2021-2022: 4-6 in 12 games. Better but 3 of the goals were in game 1 v. the Oilers. He was a non factor for most of that series.

So young though and such a small sample size. He sure gave every indication of a player whose game would fit playoff hockey.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Flames swooping in to sign Marner after Tre fails to get him signed would be fitting.

And then he’ll drop off like Huberdeau

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So young though and such a small sample size. He sure gave every indication of a player whose game would fit playoff hockey.

He did F all in the Finals...his game isn't that effective against the Oilers apparently. Moreso against a more grinding eastern style playoffs

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So young though and such a small sample size. He sure gave every indication of a player whose game would fit playoff hockey.

Oh I agree.
I was just disputing that statement that "The player we traded for Huberdeau was also a key playoff performer for us"

[YyjFlames]

Fans seem to misunderstand how challenging GMing is and how lucky (and patient) a general manager needs to be to build a successful team.

Florida finished 2022 with 122 points, got swept by TBL in the second round and traded for Tkachuk in the offseason giving up a top pairing d-man and a top line LW. They then BARELY make the playoffs in 2023 with 92 points but because they did, they went all the way to the Stanley Cup playoffs that year and dominated the next year with basically the same roster, riding the confidence of being the underdog the previous season to a stanley cup championship.

What if they missed the playoffs in 2023? Would Zito still have a job? Would that team have imploded on themselves like Calgary's did after missing the 2023 playoffs with a better record than Florida that year?

And while there are some GMs that are flat out bad, Treleving isn't that. Sure he made some boneheaded and desperate moves at the back end of his time with Calgary, but he also re-established the front office and the Flames' amateur and international scouting departments. He also identified, hired and trained talent like Craig Conroy, who's decisions and explore-all-opportunities-work ethic very much mirror the way Treleving did the job (even though Treleving is still mocked for it).

Where I hope Conroy deviates from Treleving is by being more patient in these next couple years. Stay the course and take advantage of desperate GMs. And then keep making the team's draft picks and build a deep base of prospects that'll reinforce a competitive hockey team for at least a decade. They've got the front office and scouting talent to do it. Allow it to happen.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just not a conspiracy guy.

Treliving doesn't have a terrible human being background. Nothing to support he a) wouldn't be smart enough to drive the best bargain he could or b) was tanking a franchise on the way out

Both are silly.

He felt that the team was closer than it was, and felt moving an asset to free up cap space to add Kadri would make them a contender.

He was wrong.

But the rest is way over the top in my opinion.

What's over the top? My comment? I have never once said he's a bad human being. I never said he was the worst GM ever as that's probably over the top. I totally believe he was being reckless with Kadri waiting in the wings also being courted by the Islanders, he settled for a worse deal than he should have. I also never said he was tanking the Flames on the way out. This is stuff coming out of your mouth not mine. I believe at that time he knew it was going to be his last year with the Flames and I don't think future first round picks were things he was overly worried about knowing it wasn't going to be his problem. That's not a guy intentionally tanking the Flames and just a guy that's only looking one year ahead. One of his faults is that for years he thought the team was closer than it was trading draft picks like they were burning holes in his pockets. I find it kind of funny after all these years you just keep defending the guy despite ample evidence he was an average/below average GM that did some good things and a lot of bad things while leaving a mess for Conroy to deal with. Sometimes it's okay to admit you were wrong.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I don't think Tre was trying to tank the Flames he did seem a little reckless though...not much concern for the future when he knew he wouldn't be here.

Now he inherits the Leafs AFTER a rebuild is done and is walking their leading scorer to free agency

Tre definitely didn't plan for the future. The way he handled negotiations star players was atrocious. He basically got out smarted by them all. He either let them walk themselves to free agency or handed out excessive retirement contracts.

Part of the reason the Flames structured the team the way they did was because the team was always right up against the cap. They couldn't give big players big contracts when they should have. Part of that problem goes back to Sutter.

Calgary was always relying on free agency to pick up the physical accessory players. Yet the team had been drafting almost nothing but big accessory players for a decade. They just couldn't find any that could actually play hockey, or even hit.

[Calgary4LIfe]

When I look back at Treliving's tenure, I just see 4 major mistakes through the years:


1) Poor cap management

2) Constant bleeding of picks
3) Poor coaching hires
4) Failed to address goaltending for the majority of his time here
5) I may be wrong on this one: After the series of trades and the Kadri signing, Treliving was all over the media, even on CBC News as lots of accolades were thrown at him. However, I don't remember seeing him at all towards the end when it seemed the Flames weren't making the playoffs, and the team basically imploded. It did leave a bit of a bad taste with how he just didn't address anything, and just left. I get it - he decided to move on to a bigger market. I just don't remember him in the media at all near the end of the season.



I think these are in order for me personally.


Some of the good things he did:

1) Gave this team some stability, especially in the media. This is why Burke had to be brought in originally. Flames became a laughing stock for a while.
2) Didn't sit on his hands. I really disliked the way that Feaster operated, and it showed in his returns. Treliving had some really good trades, even with the benefit of hindsight. Definitely had some poor ones too, but he undoubtedly made some good ones.
3) Great drafting (which makes the bleeding of the picks even more egregious!).
4) Seemed like a good human being, even after he left. Came to Calgary and spent time with the Snows.



For me, I am just glad that he is gone and someone else is here. We can argue until we are blue in the face about how good his moves were or weren't. The undeniable fact was that under Treliving's tenure, this team never became a contender. Sure, there were a couple of seasons heading into the playoffs where they were labeled as contenders, but hindsight shows that they were never more than a paper tiger, as many teams often are. Contending teams contend, not spend a season out of the playoffs, or getting beaten in the 1st round, or getting creamed in the 2nd round. The team became a tire-fire under his last season, for whatever reason, and he left the organization worse in terms of contracts and assets than when he first took over. I am glad that the new GM in charge was here to see it all unfold and gain some experience from that. I am also really happy that Conroy also seems to place a bigger value on draft picks than Treliving did.


We will see how Conroy does when this team looks to be turning a corner. Hopefully he can get the Flames beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs during his tenure, which I hope is very long (since it would mean the Flames would be successful).


As for the Kadri - Monahan thing: Given where the team sits in their competitive cycle (rebuilding currently), it just sucks that a 1st round pick is going, regardless of which it is. I don't get too worked up about the difference between Calgary's pick or Florida's pick - I am more upset that a 1st round pick is leaving. However, Conroy also has a bit of an opportunity to make that a win. If a Kadri trade ever comes to fruition, I will be comparing the value in that return vs the value of the pick that goes to Montreal. Monahan was traded with an asset so the Flames could sign Kadri to help with competing, and that never happened. If a Kadri trade happens, maybe it will bring a more important asset in return? Who knows? That's making up for the Monahan trade.


I am not counting the 1st that Montreal got for trading Monahan - that happened the following season when Monahan was re-signed as a UFA. Not sure Calgary would have re-signed him that year or not. However, perhaps getting rid of Monahan broke the room that year, especially with Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving. They were all huge parts of that room.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Was pretty straight forward in saying it was the wrong move, and I wish he didn't do it.

I was right on board in defending Monahan when people were dumping all over him.

As I said ... Treliving attacks are over the top. I stand by that.

This is fair.

And I have no idea on the number of people who loved the moves initially and are now retrospectively crapping on them because I do think most here liked the moves.

Having said that, it could have been somewhat of jilted lover syndrome where many were just happy to find new higher end players to love on the rebound.

I didn't like the moves from the start and had virtually everyone I know saying I was crazy and should enjoy the ride cause we were going to compete for the next 3 years minimum.

Maybe some of the over the top hate is coming from those same fans who supported it at the start and realized the rebound wasn't as good as advertised.

If that is the case, it indeed isn't fair to turn on Tre when it is now convenient to do so.

[Jason14h]

The biggest issue is the Flames and Monny didn’t just agree to LTIR him to start the season and then figure it out as the season went on and then sign Kadri

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The biggest issue is the Flames and Monny didn’t just agree to LTIR him to start the season and then figure it out as the season went on and then sign Kadri

Yup. This is essentially my take too.

And not like there was urgency from teams to pick up kadri that summer.

Resolve it the right way, where you're not forfeiting a valuable pick. Oh well.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The biggest issue is the Flames and Monny didn’t just agree to LTIR him to start the season and then figure it out as the season went on and then sign Kadri

They should have put him on LTIR before the end of the previous season. He was having to bend his knees and back excessively to take draws because he couldn’t bend either hip. Failing to put him on LTIR and then having to give up a first to get rid of him instead of keeping him as an asset was a massive miss by Treliving, as were the repeated signings of UFAs that were past their prime and ended up having to be bought out, keeping the Flames capped out and preventing them from signing their young talent to max term contracts. And don’t get me started on his incessant hiring of two bit coaches with no record of success in the NHL. Aside from coaching hires, I will admit I liked a lot of his early moves, and he genuinely seemed to be a nice guy and the hardest working GM in the league.

Just to be clear, I was not actually suggesting that he deliberately kneecapped the team at the end of his tenure, but he certainly didn’t seem to be considering the consequences of his moves for the team’s long-term outlook.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What's over the top? My comment? I have never once said he's a bad human being. I never said he was the worst GM ever as that's probably over the top. I totally believe he was being reckless with Kadri waiting in the wings also being courted by the Islanders, he settled for a worse deal than he should have. I also never said he was tanking the Flames on the way out. This is stuff coming out of your mouth not mine. I believe at that time he knew it was going to be his last year with the Flames and I don't think future first round picks were things he was overly worried about knowing it wasn't going to be his problem. That's not a guy intentionally tanking the Flames and just a guy that's only looking one year ahead. One of his faults is that for years he thought the team was closer than it was trading draft picks like they were burning holes in his pockets. I find it kind of funny after all these years you just keep defending the guy despite ample evidence he was an average/below average GM that did some good things and a lot of bad things while leaving a mess for Conroy to deal with. Sometimes it's okay to admit you were wrong.

Call it whatever you want.

But being reckless with one foot out the door isn't fulfilling your duties or being responsible in your job which doesn't scream excellent human being to me!

Wasn't tanking the Flames, but didn't worry about their 1st round pick because he was leaving?

I don't need to put words in your mouth, you put them there yourself!

I find it funnier to see people flip on Treliving from defending him to not because he's no longer the GM. I just don't think the guy was a terrible GM. I think some things just don't work out and he was in a build up mode not a rebuild so assets would always go out the door. I didn't like his lone wolf stuff though, suggested by Conroy.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Call it whatever you want.

But being reckless with one foot out the door isn't fulfilling your duties or being responsible in your job which doesn't scream excellent human being to me!

Wasn't tanking the Flames, but didn't worry about their 1st round pick because he was leaving?

I don't need to put words in your mouth, you put them there yourself!

I find it funnier to see people flip on Treliving from defending him to not because he's no longer the GM. I just don't think the guy was a terrible GM. I think some things just don't work out and he was in a build up mode not a rebuild so assets would always go out the door. I didn't like his lone wolf stuff though, suggested by Conroy.

The problem was with assets continually going out the door for middling to replacement level returns. If those assets were going out, they needed to return players that were difference makers. And while his tenure with the Flames started strong, his decisions became progressively more questionable the longer he was in the position. I was a big fan of the trade for Lindholm and Hanifin, but by the time Treliving paid to get rid of Monahan, I had seen enough of him as the Flames' GM.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The problem was with assets continually going out the door for middling to replacement level returns. If those assets were going out, they needed to return players that were difference makers. And while his tenure with the Flames started strong, his decisions became progressively more questionable the longer he was in the position. I was a big fan of the trade for Lindholm and Hanifin, but by the time Treliving paid to get rid of Monahan, I had seen enough of him as the Flames' GM.

This is said by the fan base in every market where the team thinks they have a chance to do something but don't.

[MrButtons]

He did send Neal to the gates of hell for Lucic, which I thought was a great move.

[CliffFletcher]

Rather than re-tool after Gaudreau and Tkachuk left, the Flames braintrust decided to push all their chips in. That’s why they went out and signed the best forward available on the market and extended the big piece they got in the Tkachuk deal. I guarantee you those decisions weren’t made by Treliving alone.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The problem was with assets continually going out the door for middling to replacement level returns. If those assets were going out, they needed to return players that were difference makers. And while his tenure with the Flames started strong, his decisions became progressively more questionable the longer he was in the position. I was a big fan of the trade for Lindholm and Hanifin, but by the time Treliving paid to get rid of Monahan, I had seen enough of him as the Flames' GM.

Almost the same for me, but the Hamonic trade for me was a giant red flag.