[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[FAN]

Originally Posted by RyZ

To be fair, he isn't a "goal scorer".

He has been more of a play maker at every level of hockey since he played in the WHL. He's more of an assist machine than a goal scorer.

I disagree. The fact that Sven typically has more assists than goals does not make him more of a playmaker than a scorer. In juniors, Sven was the goal scorer and Rattie was the playmaker if you were to compare styles. Monahan has more goals than assists in his NHL career but it would be foolish to say that he isn't a playmaker.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If you aren't playing good two way hockey though you need to be scoring a lot. A goal here and there isn't going to cut it.

To wit: Nigel Dawes.


As to the Flamesnation article, Ari (the author) is good people. But she and the other writers there are massive Baertschi fanboys. It clouds their judgment. Doesn't invalidate the article though - their opinions are as good as anyone elses.

[Trailer Fire]

Put me in the good for both parties camp

I like Sven, there's no denying that, but he simply wasn't going to make it in the organisation. He had confidence issues and got buried beneath better players and prospects on a LW heavy team. Good for Calgary for picking up a 2nd rounder for him. I wish him the best and hope to crap he doesn't score too many goals on us if he manages to put it together.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Even did nice charity work with the DQ thing. He has a contract, never violated it, and forewarned the Flames regarding his intentions for the future.
.

For what's it's worth he was all smiles and having fun with the charity stuff when he was still in "the next Flames star" headspace, however earlier this season Dion reported that he was pretty owly and rude, looking like he wanted to be anywhere else when him and a few Flames players did charity in High River.

Not my own encounter so I won't spread it as gospel, but something to consider.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Pure speculation on my part, but I think Baertschi didn't like Hartley. In short, Hartley is very emotionally hard on guys that don't do what he wants (I do believe he has changed over the years though, if not he would have lost the locker room a long time ago). If Baertschi is mentally weak (which he seems to be), he is not a good mix with Hartley (speaking from experience).

As far as Baertschi goes, he was 100 percent against re-signing, the only person he would deal with on a daily basis is Hartley. He and Burke had rumoured problems, but really how often do players see/talk to Burke on an annual basis? Also Treliving seemed to like Baertschi.

Hartley wasn't going anywhere, after signing the multi year deal, so it makes sense that Baertschi wanted out. If a new coach/philosophy was coming in next season, he might have stuck around. He wanted change, I think.

Again, all speculation on my part, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. I hate writing stuff like this, but I felt I needed to give my opinion.

I know if it was between Hartley and Baertschi, you always have to side with the coach.

If that was the case, then I am glad that they decided to keep the more valuable asset. It's not always the right decision to side with the coach, though. I'd trade 10 Gilberts for 1 Savard.

[jayswin]

Found the post

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...61&postcount=7

Sven was a grouch the whole evening. He had a sour look on his face while signing autographs. He had a look of I don't want to be here. Couldn't get him to open up or say much. Maybe he was having a bad day or not comfortable around crowds - who knows.

Considering how comfortable he was in front of the camera and how much fun he was having at the DQ charity event, I'd say it likely wasn't discomfort around crowds that would have led to that attitude.

[Barca]

He's looking good in the game tonight, already has an assist.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Barca

He's looking good in the game tonight, already has an assist.

Are you watching it?

[Righteous1]

Originally Posted by Barca

He's looking good in the game tonight, already has an assist.

diving game on point yet?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a bump in his production for the rest of this year. Utica has a good team and getting traded will probably light a fire under his butt.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I've stayed out of this thread to mull over the whole situation for a bit. So for what it's worth, here's just another perspective.

I had spoken to Sven on several occasions in Abby. He was always a polite, and most of all, an honest kid. He was always careful with his words, but his body language spoke volumes of how he really felt.

The very first Heat practice after Burke's public chastising of Baertschi, I went there to talk to him. For whatever reasons, I never expected to talk to him because I was told he was rather gloomy that day. After practice, he agreed to chat. I asked him the most important question about how he felt after Burke's comments. It was apparent he was expecting that question and his response was "well...*sigh*... I just... *sigh* I don't know, I *sigh*..." combined with a perplexed and upset visage. Then he continued to talk about doing what they asked of him, blah blah blah, which is all fine and well, but he never did in the long run.

Ward always spoke of wanting to see more from Sven. He always wanted to see more. Sven would put up a couple of assists in a game, the media would ask Ward what he thought of his game and he'd respond, "okay, just okay." That's Sven's AHL career in a nutshell. He put up points occasionally, but most nights he was just "okay," and on nights when he wasn't "okay," he was invisible. That's not going to earn anyone a call up, and it didn't.

I get the feeling Baertschi was never criticized throughout his entire career. That's why Burke's comments carried so much weight and sent Sven crashing to the ground. I don't know all the behind the scenes stuff and don't pretend to, but Sven just didn't seem the same after that.

I'm happy for him that he's getting a fresh start because lord knows he needs it. But he's not going to get very far as an athlete with his glass dome of confidence, especially in Vancouver where fans will turn on you with the drop of a dime, then worship you five times a day the next week (see: Shawn Matthias, Zach Kassian and currently, Eddie Lack).

I'm not going to get into whether or not he got a fair shake in Calgary and whether or not management was out to get him. All I'll say is that Sven didn't force their hand in any way. He was lackluster in the AHL, which, unfortunately for him, is the stage he had to prove himself on.

EDIT - I should add, before I get jumped on, that I didn't like what Burke did. That should have been a private discussion between Baertschi and his bosses. It was a tragic misstep in Baertschi's development process, but it happened and I feel like it was up to Sven to rise above that criticism, but I just don't think he was mentally able to do it.

[getoverit]

What game are you watching?

Originally Posted by Barca

He's looking good in the game tonight, already has an assist.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a bump in his production for the rest of this year. Utica has a good team and getting traded will probably light a fire under his butt.

For sure. And he will be riding the high right now of a fresh start and the verbal praise that he has been getting from the Canucks since the trade. It will be like when he was called up from junior and lit it up for a few games.

When things go bad for the first time, that is when he will collapse again.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by getoverit

What game are you watching?

Utica vs Amerks

[calumniate]

Thanks very much Pierre m. Very realistic take on the situation and one that us regular folk have zero insight on.

I agree with you somewhat that Burke went too far. Spin it a little however and know that he's always tried to temper expectations on players (colborne, gaudreau). But svens own expectations were already very high.. not the best scenario

*also, regardless of what Burke said, ultimately it's the coaches that the player needs to win over, and that trickles up to management. It's not a silo.. between ward and Hartley there was obviously some truth

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I'm glad we got something for him. Whether he flourishes or not doesn't matter. It wasn't working here and we got atleast some return. Smart asset management. Sven's future is irrelevant to us now. 30 goal scorer or KHL bound it doesn't matter, what matters is whether the 2nd round pick is an NHLer or not.

thats the main point, once it came out he wanted out and wasn't going to re-sign

Treveling got the best value he could

[fatso]

PMM - what a thoughtful and articulate post. Thank you very much for sharing your insight. You've expressed exactly my view (minus the personal experience) much better than I ever could.

[Righteous1]

Sven 1 point - 2nd pick 0 points

we lost the trade nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Righteous1

Sven 1 point - 2nd pick 0 points

we lost the trade nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o

Funny but for all we know 2nd pick scored a couple points for his junior team.

[Mony]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I've stayed out of this thread to mull over the whole situation for a bit. So for what it's worth, here's just another perspective.

I had spoken to Sven on several occasions in Abby. He was always a polite, and most of all, an honest kid. He was always careful with his words, but his body language spoke volumes of how he really felt.

The very first Heat practice after Burke's public chastising of Baertschi, I went there to talk to him. For whatever reasons, I never expected to talk to him because I was told he was rather gloomy that day. After practice, he agreed to chat. I asked him the most important question about how he felt after Burke's comments. It was apparent he was expecting that question and his response was "well...*sigh*... I just... *sigh* I don't know, I *sigh*..." combined with a perplexed and upset visage. Then he continued to talk about doing what they asked of him, blah blah blah, which is all fine and well, but he never did in the long run.

Ward always spoke of wanting to see more from Sven. He always wanted to see more. Sven would put up a couple of assists in a game, the media would ask Ward what he thought of his game and he'd respond, "okay, just okay." That's Sven's AHL career in a nutshell. He put up points occasionally, but most nights he was just "okay," and on nights when he wasn't "okay," he was invisible. That's not going to earn anyone a call up, and it didn't.

I get the feeling Baertschi was never criticized throughout his entire career. That's why Burke's comments carried so much weight and sent Sven crashing to the ground. I don't know all the behind the scenes stuff and don't pretend to, but Sven just didn't seem the same after that.

I'm happy for him that he's getting a fresh start because lord knows he needs it. But he's not going to get very far as an athlete with his glass dome of confidence, especially in Vancouver where fans will turn on you with the drop of a dime, then worship you five times a day the next week (see: Shawn Matthias, Zach Kassian and currently, Eddie Lack).

I'm not going to get into whether or not he got a fair shake in Calgary and whether or not management was out to get him. All I'll say is that Sven didn't force their hand in any way. He was lackluster in the AHL, which, unfortunately for him, is the stage he had to prove himself on.

EDIT - I should add, before I get jumped on, that I didn't like what Burke did. That should have been a private discussion between Baertschi and his bosses. It was a tragic misstep in Baertschi's development process, but it happened and I feel like it was up to Sven to rise above that criticism, but I just don't think he was mentally able to do it.

Thanks for this post. I feel pretty bad for Sven after reading this, although I believe if he really wanted to be a top 6'er in this organization, he should've forced the hand. There are two sides to this story - the Flames could've handled a few things better, and Sven could've done a little better as well.

Ultimately I don't have any bitterness towards him. I am conflicted though as to what I wish for him - the only reason I do not want him to succeed in the NHL is because it would reflect badly on our decision (even though there was basically no future for him here anyway). And especially not as a Canuck.

I was always hoping Sven could turn it around, but there's nothing you can do. It is what it is and this is what is best for both the Flames and Sven.