I have no doubt, that elections were fixed. My mom had a first-hand experience with Putin fixing election, the first ones when he first became a president. My mom was one of those, who were counting votes and they had 62% for Putin back then. They ran that protocol up to superior counting committee and were told to change 62% for 80%.
That said, I am not buying this news either. When you fix elections, you do not know the real results, as only fixed protocol goes up, not real and fixed together. Also it was BBC live coverage who did not make any remarks about turnout being lower than official turnout. Although 97% is definitely a fixed result, I am positive that the majority of Crimeans still voted for Russia.
There are definitely similarities, but also some crucial differences. One difference is that the Russian side simply holds the power here. I can't see the war being as prolonged in Ukraine because Russia will simply blitzkrieg the whole country before it gets to that. In Yugoslavia, there was no one to fill the power vacuum.
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There are definitely similarities, but also some crucial differences. One difference is that the Russian side simply holds the power here. I can't see the war being as prolonged in Ukraine because Russia will simply blitzkrieg the whole country before it gets to that. In Yugoslavia, there was no one to fill the power vacuum.
I don't know about that. I've read lots of credible analysis that Russia doesn't really have an interest in taking Ukraine. After all, after that they'd have to solve Ukraine's problems somehow afterwards.
Especially if the country is starting to tear itself apart, I don't see Russia wanting a part of that mess. They still remember Afghanistan, which started rather similarly for Russians.
Not to mention that the Russian troops crossing the border would instantly serve to gather a lot of sympathy for the anti-Russian crowd and Kiev government.
Ukraine crisis: Deadly gun battle on Mariupol streets
1 hour ago
At least 20 pro-Russian protesters have been killed in violence in the south of Ukraine, the country's Interior Minister has said.
Footage showed gun battles unfold between government troops and separatists on the streets of Mariupol.
The city's police HQ was also set on fire. Lucy Hockings and David Stern report
Tomorrow at 2:00PM, the Russian community of Winnipeg obtained a permit to have a parade in downtown Winnipeg, to the Legislature, to "Celebrate the Russian victory over the Nazis in World War II." Strange, since they have never had a parade in Winnipeg before celebrating the event. It's also strange that they plan to give everyone marching pro-Russian separatist black and orange cloths, for those in support the Russians in the Ukraine.
A very bold move, considering in Winnipeg, ethnic Ukrainians outnumber ethnic Russians by more than 5 to 1. Would not be the least bit surprised if demonstrators tried to disrupt the parade. also of note, the Winnipeg Police Service, who issues permits for parades, has a policy of announcing them publicly on their website. For the first time in recent memory, they made no mention of this parade.
Ukraine's new president-elect promised Monday to negotiate an end to a pro-Russia insurgency in the east and said he was willing to begin talks with Moscow. Yet he described the separatists as "Somali pirates" and authorities in Kyiv launched an airstrike against the militants occupying a major eastern airport.
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In Kyiv, international observers hailed Ukraine's presidential vote as a "genuine election," saying it was held freely and fairly Sunday.
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In Moscow, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Russia appreciated Poroshenko's statements about the importance of Ukraine's ties with Russia and his pledge to negotiate an end to fighting in the east.
"We are ready for dialogue with representatives of Kyiv, with Petro Poroshenko," Lavrov said at a briefing, adding it was a chance that "cannot be wasted." He emphasized that Moscow saw no need for any involvement by the United States or the European Union in those talks.
For many it would be easier to watch this video and just shrug it off as propaganda, because our mind can't grasp what is happening there. Its easier to believe that its not true rather than even consider the possibility what is happening and its consequences.
I beg all of you to open your eyes and stop pointing fingers at who is responsible. Ask yourselfs did we really learn nothing from WWII? People couldn't grasp the idea of people in concentration and death camps back then too, but this is where everything is leading now.
Thank you for sparing me a few minutes of your time,
Vitaly (someone who just came back from there)
PS:I am still trying to raise awareness, so can you please share the following video with as many people as possible.
Ok going to watch this video, but this station RT is a well known Russian propoganda arm of Putin's goverment.
edit... Wow, where to even begin with this piece, so many well known mouth pieces for the Russian propoganda machine in one place, all the comparisons to Hitler and Rwanda, this is quite the piece of work. Don't have time at work to be going into this right now but will do it when I have some time later.
Amnesty International says that it has gathered "graphic and compelling evidence of savage beatings and other torture" by pro-Russian separatist groups in eastern Ukraine.
The human rights group says that protesters and journalists have been targeted over the last three months.
An Amnesty report, Abductions and Torture in Eastern Ukraine, says that hundreds of people have been abducted.
Pro-government forces also committed a smaller number of abuses, Amnesty says.
Ukraine's military has made significant gains in recent days.
'Abhorrent practice'
"The bulk of the abductions are being perpetrated by armed separatists, with the victims often subjected to stomach-turning beatings and torture. But there is also evidence of a smaller number of abuses by pro-Kiev forces," Amnesty's Deputy Europe and Central Asia Director Denis Krivosheev said.
You can also read about the ongoing violence as reported by Amnesty international, of course pro-Kiev is implicated in some of it as well, but of course RT news is not going to bring that up....
You can also read about the ongoing violence as reported by Amnesty international, of course pro-Kiev is implicated in some of it as well, but of course RT news is not going to bring that up....
I agree with you there is violence done by those "seperatists", but this is what happens at a time of war... both sides are guilty of it! However, most of those so called "seperatists" are actually people who were born and raised in that region. I am telling it to you as a person that was there, and still has numerous relatives staying in that region! Which is about impossible to leave right now anyways...
Of course the Canada and USA media would call it propaganda, because it says things that work against their own propaganda! I know you won't take my word for it, but these reports are (even though one sided) right. I get told about new people(civilians that my relatives know/knew) dying there each day. I guess I am just feeling frustrated at how easily people just believe what is convenient for their governments.
Look I am not even trying to point fingers to one side anymore, in war there is enough blame to go around(and the crime level in that region is growing fast)... Something must be done, and Kiev's fire is mostly targeting civilians and not militants right now.
One final point is that even organizations such as Amnesty are dependant on governments, and their funding. Are their reports completely neutral? I am not so sure...
I agree with you there is violence done by those "seperatists", but this is what happens at a time of war... both sides are guilty of it! However, most of those so called "seperatists" are actually people who were born and raised in that region. I am telling it to you as a person that was there, and still has numerous relatives staying in that region! Which is about impossible to leave right now anyways...
What differences does that make? They're still separatists and still committing those acts. If they want to be Russian so bad, why don't they move to Russia? In my opinion all those people should be given the choice to leave to Russia or be tried for treason.
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I agree with you there is violence done by those "seperatists", but this is what happens at a time of war... both sides are guilty of it! However, most of those so called "seperatists" are actually people who were born and raised in that region. I am telling it to you as a person that was there, and still has numerous relatives staying in that region! Which is about impossible to leave right now anyways...
Well from all reports this is mostly coming from the pro russian side, no doubt as you say both sides are guilty of crimes, but lets not suggest its even. There is no denying Russia's direct involvement in bringing in outside fighters and intentionally destabilizing the region after Moscow became aware that nothing they could do would stop the Ukraine from moving closer to the EU.
This whole thing is a strategic move by Russia to create an environment where they can move militarily into the region and create another false election like they did with Crimea, no doubt Crimea in a fair and monitored election would have gone in favor of separation but that election was a fraud.
These fighters will not accept any kind of mediation, they gladly broke the cease fire multiple times and continue to harass and harm pro Ukrainians in that region. This is after all Ukrainian territory and what they are doing is obviously a move against the Ukrainians and their government, which Kiev HAS to respond to. These fighters, many of which are from outside the Ukraine are under orders from Moscow, these types of wars were predicted a number of years ago as a way for a big nation to justify military action as "intervention to protect our people." Its been textbook stuff by Moscow.
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Of course the Canada and USA media would call it propaganda, because it says things that work against their own propaganda!
Well this video is sensationalist, talks to well known mouth pieces that have been very pro Russia in the past, and of course the comparisons to Nazi's and Rwanda is laughable. There are of course fringe right wing elements in Ukraine, but the majority of this response is to an influx of foreign fighters who are intentionally destabilizing the east of Ukraine after they finished up with Crimea.
Also comparing the two sides, only Russian media is outright lying and saying things that are demonstrably untrue. The west certainly has its slant on things, but the BBC, Al Jazeera and other respected outlets all cover this in pretty much the same way, even of course the excellent series by VICE TV did an exceptional job covering this not so covert Russian invasion.
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I know you won't take my word for it, but these reports are (even though one sided) right. I get told about new people(civilians that my relatives know/knew) dying there each day. I guess I am just feeling frustrated at how easily people just believe what is convenient for their governments.
Yeah no doubt there are people dying, the Ukranian military is trying to reclaim its sovereign territory back from fighters who have vowed to fight no matter what, so bloodshed is going to happen, its horrible to see and wish both sides could sit down and hash out a deal. But its clear that the goal is to force more illegitimate elections in the region to join Russia, as with Crimea.
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Look I am not even trying to point fingers to one side anymore, in war there is enough blame to go around(and the crime level in that region is growing fast)... Something must be done, and Kiev's fire is mostly targeting civilians and not militants right now.
Sorry but Kiev is fighting rebels hold up in a civilian areas, obviously that means harm is happening to the locals, there is really no way to avoid this if they are to recapture their cities and defeat the fighters. These fighters could offer a real cease fire and negotiate a peace, but their ultimate goal is to annex this huge area of Ukraine and join Russia, Kiev obviously can't allow that to happen.
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One final point is that even organizations such as Amnesty are dependant on governments, and their funding. Are their reports completely neutral? I am not so sure...
Amnesty is widely regarded as being one of the most neutral and honest groups out there, they will gladly call out the US or Ukraine for crimes, and they are as you can see in the links above.
I think what Russia did in Crimea was beyond criminal, and the blame for this uprising in the east is squarely on Moscow's interference to cause instability so they can justify stepping in to protect their people. All of this stems from Moscow's anger and dissatisfaction over Ukraine's desire to move closer to the EU.
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What differences does that make? They're still separatists and still committing those acts. If they want to be Russian so bad, why don't they move to Russia? In my opinion all those people should be given the choice to leave to Russia or be tried for treason.
First of all they don't want to be Russian, they want to be independant. Russia is mentioned so often because they wanted its protection, from the newly seized government in Kiev. They started protesting against the government put in place instead of Yanukovich. They were labeled as separatists immediately, no questions asked. Only after they conducted the vote(through the entire region) on whether they want to be a part of Ukraine. Imagine for yourself Quebec finally decided to separate from Canada, should we label all of Quebec's police forces as separatists? Its the same case there why should they leave their homes, their land? Just because a group of 'different separatists' manage to catch power using force in Kiev.
All they said is that we don't want to fund the newly appointed government as well as be a part of the european union. If the rest of Ukraine wants to be a part of it they can go ahead, meanwhile we will keep our ties to Russia(to which about 90-95% of the industries in that region are tied). It wasn't one person that woke up one day, and said I don't want to pay taxes so I don't live in your country. Why not give millions of people a choice? isn't it what democracy is all about? no one wants to conquer Kiev, they just want to be left alone from sponsoring yet another corrupt government.
How many protesters got killed in Kiev that got the whole world riled up? tens? Here thousands of innocents are dying and its business as usual!
