The Blue Jays Thread: 2008 Season

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by JayP

It's too bad those are three of the worst stats to judge a hitter on.

Rios is a huge disappointment because he's followed up .865 and .852 OPS seasons with, currently, a .819 OPS season. At 27 he should be improving upon his numbers not having them drop off.

The thing with Rios is that I can't see him ever being a 900 OPS guy. He has extra base type power and can stretch doubles into triples, but I don't see him as a 30+ home run guy, so that sort of puts him in the 500 or so slugging area at best. He's never shown to be good enough at getting on base to post an on base % of much more than 360, so when you combine those...you get a 850-860 OPS guy which he hasn't been this year. RBI aren't always a great stat...but in this case you have a guy batting close to 300 with 550 plus AB's, who's hit third in the order for a lot of the year and might drive in 80 runs. I think you can use that to deduce that Rios has been terrible in terms of producing offensively. Most other 830 OPS guys in that situation easily bring in 100 runs.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by JayP

It's too bad those are three of the worst stats to judge a hitter on.

Rios is a huge disappointment because he's followed up .865 and .852 OPS seasons with, currently, a .819 OPS season. At 27 he should be improving upon his numbers not having them drop off.

As a numbers guy:

Has there been any change in his OPS since Gaston took over?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by calculoso

As a numbers guy:

Has there been any change in his OPS since Gaston took over?

I don't know the numbers, but Rios is on a tear the last while (player of the week last week).... there is no question his numbers are way up since Gaston took over...

[worth]

Is there anyone in here that likes baseball and doesn't like the Jays? Or am I alone on this island?

I saw them play the yankees in yankee stadium on the 30th of August. There were a few Toronto fans around. I was openly cheering for the Yankees. Game was pretty much over by the 2nd as it was 4-0 Jays at that point.

[Sylvanfan]

I think Rios OPS was in the 750 area when Gaston took over. I think when Gaston came in the only Jays slugging over 400 where Rolen and Barajas. Just by what I seem to remember, it appears that the team slugging has improved a lot and the team on base numbers have stayed about the same. Essentiall the hitters batting averages look to be up, the extra base hits are up, but I think the walks drawn have been down since Gaston/Tenace duo took over. I would think any numbers guy would happily take an increase in slugging so long as the On base numbers stayed about the same.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by worth

Is there anyone in here that likes baseball and doesn't like the Jays? Or am I alone on this island?

I saw them play the yankees in yankee stadium on the 30th of August. There were a few Toronto fans around. I was openly cheering for the Yankees. Game was pretty much over by the 2nd as it was 4-0 Jays at that point.

You do realize that we also have a MLB thread? It just doesn't get much action. I'm not a hard core Jays fan or anything...just that I see more of their games than any other team, and since the Expos died...I've been without a team.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by calculoso

As a numbers guy:

Has there been any change in his OPS since Gaston took over?

I don't have the exact number, but if I recall correctly it has increased tremendously - around .200.

[ShaolinFlame]

I was shocked to open this thread today. I think it got more posts in one day about a game than it usually did in one month. But then again Wednesdays game was the highest rated Jays game on TV in EIGHT YEARS!

Two things:

1-Prepare to be disapointed to all those riding beside me on the bandwagon. There is a reason I ride the wagon with a bag on my head...

2-Thanks to all you dickwads out there for watching the game. If this monumental TV audience saves JPs job I will be very unimpressed with all of you.

The jays will not make the...PLAYOFFS!

EDIT: I think I should clarify that when I say bandwagon I don't mean 04 flames bandwagon, I mean the having the belief that this team has a chance bandwagon. Stupid Rockies...

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by worth

Is there anyone in here that likes baseball and doesn't like the Jays? Or am I alone on this island?

I saw them play the yankees in yankee stadium on the 30th of August. There were a few Toronto fans around. I was openly cheering for the Yankees. Game was pretty much over by the 2nd as it was 4-0 Jays at that point.

I think Moon is a Cardinals fan, and there is an Oakland fan or two on here. There are a few Mariners fans, but I don't think they post in this thread.

And to me, Yankee fans are worse than Leaf fans.

[worth]

hah, i'm not a true yankees fan, just had to see a game in yankee stadium. i'm going for the mets.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by ShaolinFlame

2-Thanks to all you dickwads out there for watching the game. If this monumental TV audience saves JPs job I will be very unimpressed with all of you.

Maybe I want JP back...

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

It's too bad those are three of the worst stats to judge a hitter on.

Rios is a huge disappointment because he's followed up .865 and .852 OPS seasons with, currently, a .819 OPS season. At 27 he should be improving upon his numbers not having them drop off.

They may not be the best stats but certainly aren't the worst stats and are the stats that most fans would use to tell if a guys is having a terrible season or not.

I am not going to get into another argument about whether a guy with Rios skills should be getting better or if the .819 OPS is that bad of a season from him because we have already had arguments about it and it is clear that we have different ideas on what type of hitters the Jays players.

From my view Rios has shown that he is not the type of player that will improve on those numbers and the drop is not all that much of a surprise from him.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by calculoso

As a numbers guy:

Has there been any change in his OPS since Gaston took over?

Without doing much heavy analysis, here are Rios' OPS numbers for the months since Gaston took over:
July - .800
August - .884
September - 1.347

His OPS was at .708 on June 20th, the date Gaston was hired. Clearly Rios' hitting has improved greatly since Gaston was hired, but that's probably more a factor of his numbers evening out to expected values than anything Gaston's done.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

They may not be the best stats but certainly aren't the worst stats and are the stats that most fans would use to tell if a guys is having a terrible season or not.

They're pretty terrible stats. RBI's are basically useless. HRs and average tell some of the tale, but completely neglect doubles, triples, and walks which all are a huge part of the game.

I am not going to get into another argument about whether a guy with Rios skills should be getting better or if the .819 OPS is that bad of a season from him because we have already had arguments about it and it is clear that we have different ideas on what type of hitters the Jays players.

From my view Rios has shown that he is not the type of player that will improve on those numbers and the drop is not all that much of a surprise from him.

Yes, we've gone over this, but you've never clearly stated why Rios will never improve upon these numbers. I don't think he'll be more than a .875 OPS guy at best myself, but there's some pretty obvious reasons why. Not just because.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

They're pretty terrible stats. RBI's are basically useless. HRs and average tell some of the tale, but completely neglect doubles, triples, and walks which all are a huge part of the game.

I agree they are not great stats but they are the stats that most baseball fans use/are familiar with so quoting OPS really isn't worthwhile most of the time.

Edit: I would love if people ignored stats like RBI's as it would mean Pujols would have the MVP he deserved last year and wouldn't have to put up with crap like perhaps Delgado, Howard or Berkman should win the MVP this year.

Yes, we've gone over this, but you've never clearly stated why Rios will never improve upon these numbers. I don't think he'll be more than a .875 OPS guy at best myself, but there's some pretty obvious reasons why. Not just because.

My issue with Rios, and other Jays players, is that they are not good enough hitters that a .820 OPS can been seen as a surprise.

I think he certainly could have .875 OPS at some point but what he has shown to me is that he is not a good enough hitter that he should be expected to consistently put up high OPS, average, slg, HR or RBI numbers.

Like other players of his ability and below there are going to be seasons that are going to be worse than others and it isn't because they are in a slump or having an off year it is because they are not good enough to consistently put up very good to excellent numbers.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by worth

Is there anyone in here that likes baseball and doesn't like the Jays? Or am I alone on this island?

I saw them play the yankees in yankee stadium on the 30th of August. There were a few Toronto fans around. I was openly cheering for the Yankees. Game was pretty much over by the 2nd as it was 4-0 Jays at that point.

While I don't like the Jays, I have some what of a soft spot for them being Canada's only baseball team, I am indeed a big Houston Astros fan. So no, you're not alone on that island.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by JayP

Without doing much heavy analysis, here are Rios' OPS numbers for the months since Gaston took over:
July - .800
August - .884
September - 1.347

His OPS was at .708 on June 20th, the date Gaston was hired. Clearly Rios' hitting has improved greatly since Gaston was hired, but that's probably more a factor of his numbers evening out to expected values than anything Gaston's done.

The change in hitting focus for the team doesn't get any credit? Tough crowd....

[I_H8_Crawford]

The Jays' run looks a lot similar to the Oilers' run at the end of the season last year.

If they keep a similar team into next year, they probably wont do as well and will miss the playoffs again, IMO.

[KTown]

A sweep against the Bosox and the Jays will be 2.5 back. If they only win 3 they will be 4.5 back.

There slim hopes of playoffs basically IMO lies on a sweep in Boston.

Not great odds but doable.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by calculoso

The change in hitting focus for the team doesn't get any credit? Tough crowd....

Obviously Gaston deserves some credit for the entire team hitting better, but I still contend that Rios is a case where the guy simply isn't going to hit at a .708 OPS for a whole year. The guy is too talented to do that.