[Signing] Flames sign Huberdeau to long term extension (8 yrs, $10.5 mil AAV)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Everyone overlooks the Chinese. It’s a massive country. There must be some hidden gems.

I dont follow 'Hoop-Ball' but whats Yao Ming up to these days and can he skate?

[1991 Canadian]

I like Huberdeau. I don’t get the sense he’s given up. He seems to have a good attitude about the situation. But I can’t think of any NHL player, let alone Flames player that has had such a quick positive to negative value change.

The Flames have ended up with lots of poor value contracts over the years, but they are usually UFAs who never had positive trade value (and as UFAs they aren’t meant to). Huberdeau is unique as it feels like a UFA signing, but until they decided to extend him, he had a ton of trade value.

2022 offseason. Flames acquire a 115 point Huberdeau with one year left at $5.9 million. Even Feaster would have been able to trade for an unprotected first and a B level prospect. Maybe more. Trade deadline, even with the 50 point season, still likely would have gotten a late 1st.

But with his current contract, it would take at least two 1st round picks to get it off the books. Given the Flames have the leagues most cap space, it’s not currently a problem. And by the time it does matter, they’ll be able to do a compliance buyout, LTIRetire, etc, but the trade value is gone.

I’m already fairly bullish on how quickly Conroy has been able to restock the Flames picks and prospects, but the alternate reality where the Flames flip Huberdeau is an interesting one. He signed the extension within 2 weeks of the trade. I’d be really curious what kind of offers Treliving could have gotten for Huberdeau if he didn’t have the compete at all costs marching order.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Part of that was coaching and some of the players brought in didn't do the job, which also created cap issues. The Troy, Neal and Lucic additions were the result of poor player evaluation. Was it the couching input, the scouts the GM or Murry?

I don't see how Murry is part of the player evaluation side of it. He must have gotten some input from the guys running the ship.

Yes, agreed.

Treliving would have indicated, at the very least, he was intending to add a RW with size/scoring to presumably take the next step. Treliving probably identified the profile/the type of player he felt the Flames needed. I would imagine Edwards was well aware and on board with this strategy as it was intended to push them forward. No need to re litigate those deals. That’s another discussion. I think Treliving, and NHL GM’s look for player profiles as much as individuals. I think Treliving’s process was good but failed in execution on these fronts.

What I think would have been a much tougher sell for Treliving would have been to go up Edwards and say ‘Here’s what I think we need to get better but I don’t think that we can find that. Best we sit tight and do nothing. Maybe something will become available down the line, maybe not’.

Either your trying to get better, or your not is how some might phrase it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Maybe Edward's isn't as dumb as people seem to assume. He's probably capable of doing a simple cost/benefit analysis of what a rebuild looks like. He probably was/is aware of team's talent level, top prospects and general situation. He is probably also capable of changing the team's directive based on its situation. The guy is smart enough to know the team needs some new superstars. All evidence shows that the team is tanking to get those superstars. I for one am happy to have an owner who will spend to the cap once it's time to win.

Edwards is one of the sharpest guys I ever worked with. He knew contracts he was dealing with inside out, and was a hard-ass negotiator.

But he likes money and a playoff round or two every year makes up for a whole year of just meeting expenses. A cup would be great but I think he generally wants to have a team that (a) draws ordinary fans (as opposed to more focused ones like on this board) and (b) wants the revenue from POs.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Edwards is one of the sharpest guys I ever worked with. He knew contracts he was dealing with inside out, and was a hard-ass negotiator.

But he likes money and a playoff round or two every year makes up for a whole year of just meeting expenses. A cup would be great but I think he generally wants to have a team that (a) draws ordinary fans (as opposed to more focused ones like on this board) and (b) wants the revenue from POs.

He must realize then that attendance and interest was waning the way things were being run before. In sports, just being a wall flower doesn’t build self-sustaining fan base.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Yes, agreed.

Treliving would have indicated, at the very least, he was intending to add a RW with size/scoring to presumably take the next step. Treliving probably identified the profile/the type of player he felt the Flames needed. I would imagine Edwards was well aware and on board with this strategy as it was intended to push them forward. No need to re litigate those deals. That’s another discussion. I think Treliving, and NHL GM’s look for player profiles as much as individuals. I think Treliving’s process was good but failed in execution on these fronts.

What I think would have been a much tougher sell for Treliving would have been to go up Edwards and say ‘Here’s what I think we need to get better but I don’t think that we can find that. Best we sit tight and do nothing. Maybe something will become available down the line, maybe not’.

Either your trying to get better, or your not is how some might phrase it.

Definitely can see this situation being played out, but Troy then Neal and onto Lucic,.those were a series of set backs and failures that we couldn't recover from. What if Conroy told Murray that he didn't think Neal was the right player, do you think Murry would have forced Conroy to do it anyway? I think if Murry has faith in Conroy's process (which he has to earn) why wouldn't he give him more runway to do what he felt was best or better for the team? Making it sound like Treliving had no choice seems a bit unfair but still possible. The coaching hires is another discussion but again a setback obviously if Edwards called in Sutter he must not have liked what he saw with the coaching failures at that point.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

teams do it all the time, there are 10+ teams doing it right now...that is the whole point of the argument

They were pointed in that direction but not forced, they could have gone another way. AT LEAST a third of the league has no shot at the cup this season and will be worse the following year.

At least a third of the league?

How many of that third are actively trying to get into the playoffs and how many are doing what the Flames are? Take that 1/3 of the league and cut it to 1/12-ish.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TOfan

At least a third of the league?

How many of that third are actively trying to get into the playoffs and how many are doing what the Flames are? Take that 1/3 of the league and cut it to 1/12-ish.

Yeah, the timing is actually pretty good. The "bad" teams all have top prospects and are starting to look to emerge now. I really don't see any other team that is doing what Calgary is right now.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Yeah, the timing is actually pretty good. The "bad" teams all have top prospects and are starting to look to emerge now. I really don't see any other team that is doing what Calgary is right now.

Exactly.

Chicago, Columbus, Anaheim, Montreal, Utah, these are teams who are likely looking to start picking themselves up off the mat. Seattle just dolled out $93M. They’re not rebuilding. Neither is NJ, Ottawa, Buffalo or Detroit. Hard also for Philadelphia to rebuild with Torts having any say.

SJ might have another year or two at the bottom but they’re likely a year or two ahead of the Flames. They’re probably flat lining while the Flames are still on an intentional downward trajectory.

Basically, it’s the Flames and SJ.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TOfan

At least a third of the league?

How many of that third are actively trying to get into the playoffs and how many are doing what the Flames are? Take that 1/3 of the league and cut it to 1/12-ish.

At least a third of the league has no shot at the cup this year and are getting worse not better.

[memphusk]

And as the league adds teams its going to be harder to win with a thinned out talent pool.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

At least a third of the league has no shot at the cup this year and are getting worse not better.

Okay….sure? Water is wet.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by memphusk

And as the league adds teams its going to be harder to win with a thinned out talent pool.

On the other hand, I suspect there’s more kids than ever playing hockey in the US.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think many of us hear have always said that Calgary ownership will never agree to a rebuild until it is forced upon them. Like his time. They really had no choice.

Many say that as an excuse for Treliving. My point is I believe that Treliving never wanted to rebuild and with the exception of the hire of Sutter he did what he wanted to on the hockey operations side. For Murray to be some overbearing meddling owner he sure took a long time to get his preferred coach in the seat.

The Flames are not forced into anything, they could have spent a bunch of money this offseason and built a bubble team but they did not. Because ownership accepts the direction and advice of the GM.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Okay….sure? Water is wet.

You seemed to be arguing the point

[Shazam]

Can't we just extract Huberdeau for his nutrients?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Many say that as an excuse for Treliving. My point is I believe that Treliving never wanted to rebuild and with the exception of the hire of Sutter he did what he wanted to on the hockey operations side. For Murray to be some overbearing meddling owner he sure took a long time to get his preferred coach in the seat.

The Flames are not forced into anything, they could have spent a bunch of money this offseason and built a bubble team but they did not. Because ownership accepts the direction and advice of the GM.

The Flames first approached Sutter after Peters went away and Sutter said he wasn’t ready/interested at that time. Ward was put in place then the pandemic hit and given there were no fans buying tickets I bet Edwards/ownership wasn’t terribly interested in hiring an expensive coach. I also suspect the flames circled back to Sutter after the season to which Sutter gave it some thought. That would explain why it took the Flames 3-4 weeks to officially give Ward the job. Finally Sutter agreed to join the team at the tail end of the pandemic (or at least the restrictions were starting to lift).

The Flames not spending money this year goes hand in hand with several things:

A) as discussed, the Flames rebuild has been dictated by several players wanting out, or ‘quiet quitting’ ie making unrealistic contract demands (Lindholm specifically)

B) construction of the new arena and green line making accessing the dome not too practical, ticket sales will be down.

C) no identifiable face of the franchise type player to drive ticket sales/interest.

Rebuilding may not have been ‘forced’ but there sure were several very compelling reasons to do so

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

I like Huberdeau. I don’t get the sense he’s given up. He seems to have a good attitude about the situation. But I can’t think of any NHL player, let alone Flames player that has had such a quick positive to negative value change.

The Flames have ended up with lots of poor value contracts over the years, but they are usually UFAs who never had positive trade value (and as UFAs they aren’t meant to). Huberdeau is unique as it feels like a UFA signing, but until they decided to extend him, he had a ton of trade value.

2022 offseason. Flames acquire a 115 point Huberdeau with one year left at $5.9 million. Even Feaster would have been able to trade for an unprotected first and a B level prospect. Maybe more. Trade deadline, even with the 50 point season, still likely would have gotten a late 1st.

But with his current contract, it would take at least two 1st round picks to get it off the books. Given the Flames have the leagues most cap space, it’s not currently a problem. And by the time it does matter, they’ll be able to do a compliance buyout, LTIRetire, etc, but the trade value is gone.

I’m already fairly bullish on how quickly Conroy has been able to restock the Flames picks and prospects, but the alternate reality where the Flames flip Huberdeau is an interesting one. He signed the extension within 2 weeks of the trade. I’d be really curious what kind of offers Treliving could have gotten for Huberdeau if he didn’t have the compete at all costs marching order.

Two first round picks to get someone to take 7 years and $73.5MM of an unproductive player who will decline further? It would cost more than 5 first round picks. Especially since he cannot be bought out. Monny cost 1 first round pick.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Can’t believe this is still going on.

It’s very simple. A soon to be 30 year old UFA is most likely going to be paid for what he did, not what he’s going to do. Obviously no one excepted such a steep drop off in points but his point total was coming down.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Murry seems to get blamed for a lot of things. The GM still has to sell the ideas to the owner and they both agree to sign off on them. I can't see it being one way street where the owner and group makes most of the decisions. Conroy probably had to sit down and sell the idea of how he was going to move forward with the re-tool, rebuild, I think with the rebuild, if the fans are still in the stands there may be more flexibility at the end of seasons 3. The key here is drafting and bringing in elite quality players that want to be here, the response from the fans seems to be quite positive. I think we're going to see a different approach and the Flames are going to build more within rather than look externally unless it's a proven player. My guess is that Conroy is going to be a better evaluator of a players talent and ability before brought in. Huberdeau situation is a good lesson for the Flames to look at ways to get it right.

I have said before and I will say it again, Conroy has full control of his job and the moves he makes, he doesn't have to run anything past Edwards. Does Edwards want the playoffs? Of course but he is on board with management's vision.