GT: Federal Election

[Blaster86]

Electivus for the rest of us!

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by peter12

Mixed systems end up with pretty complicated results. FPTP allows us to completely remove parties who have overstayed their welcome. In some glorious cases, it allows the electorate to completely destroy them. This, in turn, drives innovation and turnover within the parties. Old elites are swept out, disgraced, and forced to take middling roles as boardroom shills or lobbyists. All PR does is further cement the party (and not the community) as the centrepiece to a democracy. Look at the horrifically entrenched parties that through the guarantee of perpetual election through PR, and their absolute controls of the candidate lists can stay on indefinitely.

DOWN WITH PR!

I wholeheartedly disagree with a straight up PR system. In a nation as large and diverse as Canada how can you ensure that all regions are represented in a PR system?

If we had a PR system for this election, how many MPs do you think Atlantic Canada or the Territories would have?

If you had a straight PR system, who do you contact if you have an issue pertaining to the federal government? Who represents you?

PR systems work well in small geographic areas where the needs/wants/desires of the electorate are similar.

Aside from being Flames fans, my needs and the needs of my family are going to be different than the needs of those of you who live in Calgary. Neither's needs are wrong, and neither's needs are more important than the other, they're just different.

That's what I like about our current system.

Does it have problems? Yes.

I have a friend suggest that there should be two ballots, one identical to the one we currently have; you vote for your local MP who represents a party. A second ballot to vote solely for the party. The party votes are tabulated nationally and X amount of seats are given to the party vote and distributed proportionally.

This would ensure local representation, while giving smaller party voters a voice. It also wouldn't necessarily prevent majority governments.

Is that system perfect? Probably not. Have I run the numbers to see how it would play out? No, I have not.

It's a thought, nothing more (not even an argument).

Regardless, PR isn't good for Canada. However, I really liked peter12's thoughts on the issue. It's always interesting to see someone who agrees with you but for a different reason, and/or a reason you never thought of.

[driveway]

RE: Proportional representation.


I had this idea pop into my head as I was drinking beer with the one other Canadian I know here in Phnom Penh, toasting Harper's demise last night:

What if we turned the Senate into a house of Proportional Representation? Keep the Parliament as First-Past-The-Post and the more influential of the two houses, and take the Senate and make it, say, half the size of the Parliament and hand out Senate seats based on proportional vote by Province.

So Alberta has 4.5 million people or so, 13% of the population of the country so it gets 13 % of the seats in the Senate, which are given to the parties to assign members to fill based on the proportional vote of that province, I can't find the exact number, but it looks like Alberta is somewhere between 50-60% blue in proportion, so we'd hand out the seats like that.

You still end up with the issue of Eastern dominance, but I think it would go a long way to alleviating the feeling of "well my vote didn't even matter" as whichever platform you voted for would gain Senate support based on your vote.

I know that reforming the Senate is a huge, huge undertaking, but people who are more versed in the actual functioning of government than I am... is this a terrible idea?

[Morozee]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Yup. I've said it before, but it's worth repeating: I would very strongly consider supporting the federal Conservative Party if they had a leader like Peter Lougheed. There's no way I will EVER vote for the band of neo fascists who are currently running the show, though. The recipe for the CPC to return to government is to get a new leader, purge the party of the Reform old guard, and reach out to all the moderate red Tories and blue Liberals who were completely alienated by Harper.

This. I could not agree more.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

isolated aboriginal reserves = breeding grounds of poverty
Prior forced assimilation = residential schools
Residential schools = aboriginals will never trust gov't again, and won't be forced to cities

No possible way for the gov't to ever fix the issue. Can't force these people off their treaty land. Some eventually leave, but carry huge issues by the time they do.

Endless cycle of gov't reliance written into law by treaties and the Indian act.

The trust (or lack of) is the major issue and I don't blame them, but I really don't want to believe that the Canadian government can't earn it back.

That's why an inquiry into missing aboriginal women is necessary IMO. It's great that the RCMP have determined what might have happened, but that isn't the purpose of the inquiry. The purpose is to figure out the conditions that allowed it to happen and persist for so long. It's stuff like this that will help earn some trust and hopefully enough that one day we can take bigger steps to correct the mistakes that keep them in poverty.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The trust (or lack of) is the major issue and I don't blame them, but I really don't want to believe that the Canadian government can't earn it back.

That's why an inquiry into missing aboriginal women is necessary IMO. It's great that the RCMP have determined what might have happened, but that isn't the purpose of the inquiry. The purpose is to figure out the conditions that allowed it to happen and persist for so long. It's stuff like this that will help earn some trust and hopefully enough that one day we can take bigger steps to correct the mistakes that keep them in poverty.

We know it's poverty, we also know that native leadership is generally inept, corrupt and uncaring as long as they get their beaks wet.

Nothing will change unfortunately.

[peter12]

Where have you guys been? 70% of indigenous people have moved to Canadian cities.

[White Out 403]

Of course Conservatives want to keep fptp. It's the only way they can form majority governments in a country that's centre left.

[Azure]

I don't think the greatest political leader in the history of the world could fix the problems aboriginals have across Canada in 4 years or less.

People have unrealistic expectations. It took us 100 years to get to where we are today? Who says it'll take any less time to fix it?

[peter12]

Do people automatically assume that ALL Liberals are centre-left? For goodness sake, the Liberals won't be touching trade (TPP), will reduce taxes on the middle class and haven't breathed a word about corporate taxes.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Of course Conservatives want to keep fptp. It's the only way they can form majority governments in a country that's centre left.

It's why I want to keep it and I'm centre left!

This is how the system is supposed to work, we got pissed off with liberal corruption and voted in the Tories, now we have kicked them out for arrogance.
Systems need left and right balance.

[nik-]

I think what the country needs is two more legit parties. Not the Greens and the Bloc. If we consistently had like 5 parties getting substantial representatives in government, they'd always have to work together. Moving that way would be way more preferable to moving closer to effectively a two party system like the US.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by peter12

Do people automatically assume that ALL Liberals are centre-left? For goodness sake, the Liberals won't be touching trade (TPP), will reduce taxes on the middle class and haven't breathed a word about corporate taxes.

Liberals are center right.

But either way the political spectrum meter sure isn't where it should be these days. When I see 'conservative' supporters scream and yell about how the government shouldn't be taking all their money in the form of taxation while at the same time saying that the government is crazy for wanting to legalize marijuana because it'll turn us into a hippie nation it makes me wonder if those people bothered to listen in Grade 11 social studies.

You can't have it both ways folks. Either you have small government or you have big government. If you want small government, which conservative supporters apparently do, it means things like marijuana should be legal to use.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Of course Conservatives want to keep fptp. It's the only way they can form majority governments in a country that's centre left.

FPTP systems have a tendency to produce majority governments for whichever party receives a plurality of votes. Over Canada's history the overwhelming benefactor of that has been the Liberals.

[Flash Walken]

Anything that prevents what are effectively two different political ideologies from combining purely in the pursuit of power is going to greatly influence political discourse in the country for the better.

There is no way a reform party would have ever gained power without their hostile takeover of the Progressive Conservatives. Having 1 party right of centre is much worse for Canadians than having 2 right of centre, one different than the other.

The last thing this country needs is an amalgamation of the Liberal and NDP party.

I believe, as others do clearly in this thread, that a separate federal PC party would be very popular among socially liberal, fiscally conservative urban voters. Had that party existed it's possible we're looking at a PC minority government with the Reform/Alliance forming the opposition.

[getbak]

Whoever is running the Herald's Twitter feed tonight is a fan of the "Justin Trudeau striding confidently" style of photo. These are from their last three tweets...







https://twitter.com/calgaryherald

[Knut]

Anyone have a good article or summary of proposed changes to taxes ?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Anyone have a good article or summary of proposed changes to taxes ?

tl;dr: If you make between $45k and $199k, you get a small tax break. If you make over $200k, your tax bill goes up.

Current federal income tax brackets:

15% on the first $44,701 of taxable income, +
22% on the next $44,700 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $44,701 up to $89,401), +
26% on the next $49,185 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $89,401 up to $138,586), +
29% of taxable income over $138,586.

Proposed income tax brackets from the Liberal election platform (changes from current rates in bold):

15% on the first $44,701 of taxable income, +
20.5% on the next $44,700 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $44,701 up to $89,401), +
26% on the next $49,185 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $89,401 up to $138,586), +
29% on the next $61,414 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over over $138,586 up to $199,999), +
33% of taxable income over $200,000.

[CliffFletcher]

The proposed new Canada Child Benefit will mean something like $2,500 more for a typical family of four.

Nine ways your family finances will change under a Liberal government

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

tl;dr: If you make between $45k and $199k, you get a small tax break. If you make over $200k, your tax bill goes up.

Current federal income tax brackets:

15% on the first $44,701 of taxable income, +
22% on the next $44,700 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $44,701 up to $89,401), +
26% on the next $49,185 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $89,401 up to $138,586), +
29% of taxable income over $138,586.

Proposed income tax brackets from the Liberal election platform (changes from current rates in bold):

15% on the first $44,701 of taxable income, +
20.5% on the next $44,700 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $44,701 up to $89,401), +
26% on the next $49,185 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $89,401 up to $138,586), +
29% on the next $61,414 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over over $138,586 up to $199,999), +
33% of taxable income over $200,000.

Yeah, I wouldnt get too excited about that yet.

But on the bright side as a Flames fan we should be making a hard pitch for PK Subban!

His top marginal tax rate in Montreal is now going to be 58.75% versus our meagre 45%!

Time to steal PK and Price!