Karzai Thinking to Join Taliban

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Brezinski has been working in government forever. He advises Obama. He is part of many think tanks that shape U.S. foreign policy........like I mentioned with the Trilateral Commisssion and the CFR. There is alot of continuity in U.S. government behind the scenes.

He is one man.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

He is one man.

So is Bin Laden.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

So is Bin Laden.

What does that have to do with anything I have been saying?

Mikey is basing his entire argument that the US policy in the Middle East has been stagnant for 20+ years on the commonaltiy of one man.

Has nothing to do with bin Laden.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Interesting you bring that up........

There was a proposal made to President Kennedy by his defense people called Operation Northwoods.......the plan was to pull a false flag terror attack on U.S. soil to gain public support for the invasion of Cuba.

Kennedy refused.....

But wait........a government would never want to hurt its' own people to serve its own agenda would they??

I believe that the US government would further policy that would give them more power, but I seriously doubt they would ever intentionally go about hurting their own people to serve their own agenda.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Why is that?
Even though he is over the top sometimes, and quite right wing, I think some of the stuff on his site is closer to the truth than what you will typically find on the evening news with CNN/Fox.
They also reference many mainstream articles on the site from places like the New York Times, Washington Post etc.....

Because he makes a lot of claims that absolutely can't be vetted.

So sorry, infowars is pathetic.

If you want to talk about something, post direct links to the Washington Post and we'll talk about it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Brezinski has been working in government forever. He advises Obama. He is part of many think tanks that shape U.S. foreign policy........like I mentioned with the Trilateral Commisssion and the CFR. There is alot of continuity in U.S. government behind the scenes.

If that is indeed true(I wouldn't be surprised)...it speaks more about the stupidity of the government than it does anything else.

Hell I believe there were certain people involved in pulling strings so that Bush would invade Iraq. I think evidence was manipulated, ignored or perhaps even flubbed to provide 'sound' reason to invade.

I don't see why any of that would be surprising. The US government is run by a bunch of morons who are in it to serve their own purpose.

But I would never go so far as to claim that the US carried out 9/11 to further all of this. That would completely go against the belief that the US government is stupid and incapable of even running a simple social security program.

Which they aren't. And you think they could carry out 9/11 without anyone finding out about it?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Interesting you bring that up........

There was a proposal made to President Kennedy by his defense people called Operation Northwoods.......the plan was to pull a false flag terror attack on U.S. soil to gain public support for the invasion of Cuba.

Kennedy refused.....

But wait........a government would never want to hurt its' own people to serve its own agenda would they??

Yes there were also plans for the invasion of Canada if Quebec seperated, the cold war planning of Curtis Lemay to launch an immediate nuclear bombing campaign that included randomly dropping high yield nuclear warheads into the ocean to destroy Soviet Submarine capabilities due to a high radiation environment.

Every government is going to get all kinds of recommendations. Contigency planning galore that runs the gamut from normal to extreme.

But at the end of the day thats where the concept of oversite and executive decisions come into play.

Northwoods would have never seen the light of day because there was no way to contain leaks on it, and it involved the harming of U.S. citizens, and there was no way to limit knowledge of it due to the requirement that the U.S. intelligence organizations have to inform the Senate committee on intelligence after the fact.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of even more insane ideas have been created, recommended and kicked to the top and been rejected. Thats what you get when you have diverse people in charge of planning and long term strategies.

Operation Northwoods is proof of nothing except the fact that some military planners had no concept of reality and were slapped down for it.

The document was made public on November 18, 1997[2] and a more complete form was published online April 30, 2001[3]. Kennedy rejected the operation and it is noted in a document from March 16, 1962:

"General Lemnitzer commented that the military had contingency plans for US intervention. Also it had plans for creating plausible pretexts to use force, with the pretext either attacks on US aircraft or a Cuban action in Latin America for which we could retaliate. The President said bluntly that we were not discussing the use of military force, that General Lemnitzer might find the U.S so engaged in Berlin or elsewhere that he couldn't use the contemplated 4 divisions in Cuba."[4]

Basically when Lemnitzer created the plan it was far outside of the directives and requirements that were originally laid out by the president. In other words "Hey I just want to spitball something . . . you might think its crazy but . . . "

Plus if you want to go into the real impact of Northwoods on American lives. And look at the planning of it, it looks like it wasn't designed to kill Americans

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.
(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base.
(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the base.
(4) Start riots near the base main gate (friendly Cubans)
(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.
(6) Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).
(7) Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base. Some damage to installations.
(8) Capture assault teams approaching from the sea or vicinity of Guantanamo City.
(9) Capture militia group which storms the base.
(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; -- large fires (napthalene).
(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock victims (may be lieu of (10)).

We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in Cuban waters.


We could develop a communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.

The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

Near the end of the document, you will find a more in-depth operation that calls for a passenger jet to be shot down by a Cuban MIG airplane....the only catch is that the government arranged for the plane to be a drone and devoid of passengers! The passengers of the flight would be landed at a secure location, i.e. allowed to live. Another drone, unempty airplane would be shot down instead. Again, an instance of the government going out of its way to preserve lives.

Operation Northwoods could be construed as an argument against the U.S. involvement in 9/11. They create a suggested plan of action that seems to go out of its way to preserve U.S. lives and reduce casualties. Then suddenly go into 9/11 with a plan to murder 5000 people. Thats quite the contradiction.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because he makes a lot of claims that absolutely can't be vetted.

So sorry, infowars is pathetic.

If you want to talk about something, post direct links to the Washington Post and we'll talk about it.

Says who? You and CaptainCrunch??

Alex Jones is well read and researched.......but a bit over the top.

And.....I have posted many non-infowars articles in the past.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Says who? You and CaptainCrunch??

Alex Jones is well read and researched.......but a bit over the top.

And.....I have posted many non-infowars articles in the past.

Alex Jones is a amateur movie maker. He might be well read, but he's certainly not well researched, he makes loose associations and broad allegations and then edits his films around him.

I've watched loose change multiple times, he distorts facts to fit his own twisted nonsensical conspiracy theories.

He's the ultimate sales man, he the ultimate delusion, but a person that pulls facts and distorts is not well researched or well read.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Says who? You and CaptainCrunch??

Alex Jones is well read and researched.......but a bit over the top.

And.....I have posted many non-infowars articles in the past.

Just because he claims stuff doesn't exactly then make it fact.

He is more than a bit over the top.

There is a reason respected journalists have pushed him out time and time again.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Does that guy look 22? Yeah why not? Those dudes are hairy....

Why not? Because it doesn't even look like him, and that guy is at least 40 years old.

Here's a picture of Bill Cosby, John Kerry and Kanye West in 1981. The guy in the suit is Bobby Orr.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Whether that particular photo is Osama Bin Laden or not, does not change my view about how the U.S. has had their hand in manipulating different groups in the middle east for decades. That is Brezinski...

So it doesn't matter who else is in the picture, but that is Breziniskiz? So what? What you are doing now is saying he's guilty for having his picture taken.

As for the rest of it... we all know the US has been meddling over there for decades, and they've cosied up with some shady characters. Who denies it? It's quite a leap to "they were behind 9/11" though.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Alex Jones is a amateur movie maker. He might be well read, but he's certainly not well researched, he makes loose associations and broad allegations and then edits his films around him.

I've watched loose change multiple times, he distorts facts to fit his own twisted nonsensical conspiracy theories.

He's the ultimate sales man, he the ultimate delusion, but a person that pulls facts and distorts is not well researched or well read.

Alex Jones only produced Loose Change: Final Cut.

Burmas did the previous versions......

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Azure

There is a reason respected journalists have pushed him out time and time again.

Respected journalists like who?
Alex Jones gets plenty of quality guests on his radio shows. I think most "respected" journalists would be afraid to talk with Alex Jones about government corruption for fear of losing their jobs.....
He is gaining populartiy, just getting on to satellite radio recently. The journalists who have "pushed him out time and time again" are probably the mainstream types who don't want to rock the establishment they work for.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Plus if you want to go into the real impact of Northwoods on American lives. And look at the planning of it, it looks like it wasn't designed to kill Americans

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.
(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base.
(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the base.
(4) Start riots near the base main gate (friendly Cubans)
(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.
(6) Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).
(7) Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base. Some damage to installations.
(8) Capture assault teams approaching from the sea or vicinity of Guantanamo City.
(9) Capture militia group which storms the base.
(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; -- large fires (napthalene).
(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock victims (may be lieu of (10)).

We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in Cuban waters.


We could develop a communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.

"We could develop a communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington"

I would be damn well impressed if operations like this didn't kill innocent casualties, both American and Cuban.
Carefully placed bombs? I love that........like what in a back alley somewhere? Cuban terrorists have bombed a back alley in Miami.

Don't kid yourselves.......there would be casualties. You have to sell the war right?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Respected journalists like who?
Alex Jones gets plenty of quality guests on his radio shows. I think most "respected" journalists would be afraid to talk with Alex Jones about government corruption for fear of losing their jobs.....
He is gaining populartiy, just getting on to satellite radio recently. The journalists who have "pushed him out time and time again" are probably the mainstream types who don't want to rock the establishment they work for.

Hulk Hogan has a weekly satallite radio show. So does the wife of the former head of the church of Satan. I don't think its that hard to get a satellite radio show.

Alex Jones is admired by people who buy into his shabbily put together conspiracy theories. Good journalists who actually have to back up their stories with facts and corroboration are afraid to talk to him because they're afraid of catching his insanity germs.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

"We could develop a communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington"

I would be damn well impressed if operations like this didn't kill innocent casualties, both American and Cuban.
Carefully placed bombs? I love that........like what in a back alley somewhere? Cuban terrorists have bombed a back alley in Miami.

Don't kid yourselves.......there would be casualties. You have to sell the war right?

I find it funny that the plan which again was rejected by the President because it completely missed the mark, and was basically called stupid had in it elements that were meant to avoid loss of civilian lives, yet years later the Government of the United States decided to callously cause mass casualties to fight a two front war that would forever cripple their economy and drive a diplomatic wedge between the U.S. and pretty much the rest of the world.

And did you ever wonder why the Government willingly released the information on Operation Northwoods?

Because it was crazy and nobody would believe that any standing president or congressional body would allow it to happen.

When I was in the Military and I had to plan a ambush or attack or patrol as part of one of the many leadership courses that I was forced to take. I was always told to create three plans, one passive, one crazy aggressive and one right in the middle. I have to tell you, the crazy ones probably would have been fantastic to watch, probably would have secured whatever objective I was after, but I would have planted have of the men that I was leading.

The crazy one is always rejected.

Operation Northwood was crazy, it would have been impossible to keep a lid on it, and it would have leaked.