Four Mounties apparently killed near Mayerthorpe

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Sammie@Mar 4 2005, 07:39 PM
According to what I heard reported in the news by neighbors and family members, this guy became especially dangerous and insane whenever he was high. So I wouldn't discount the role drugs played in these killings.

Not to get into semantics but I bet when he got high he was on more then just the reefer. Going dangerous and insane is not a characteristic of someone who has smoked pot. More like lazy and useless.

By the way, I am not discoutning the role drugs played in this tragedy.. I hope thats not what is coming across...

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm@Mar 4 2005, 06:23 PM

I don't think this has much to do with pot, if pot was legal the guy who murdered those police officers would still be a nut job and probably would have been doing something else. Making pot legal wouldn't have stop this.

I'm a little confused by this. I have no problem with a liquor store beside other stores, and I wouldn't have a problem with a pot store beside a pottery barn. WHy would I worry about that?

Exactly !

Have these murders really got anything to do with pot? By most accounts so far, this guy was a lunatic waiting for an excuse to do something just like this ! It seems that this was almost bound to happen.

The guy hated cops, was a messed up druggie from a messed up home, was in and out of trouble all his life, and made it known to at least one person that he wanted to off cops !! It looks to me like he'd been setting himself up for a moment like what happened for quite some time. The fact that he had a grow-op, to me anyway, seems irrelevant.

Perhaps the cops were looking for a good reason to put this guy away for a long while. Rozko, or whatever the waste of skins name was, was also looking to put some cops away forever. Looks like the bad guy got his wish. The only good to come out of it is the fact that he'll never waste another breath of Earth's air again.

Edit - to agree and elaborate a bit with Mr Mastadon who beat me to it

[the_only_turek_fan]

Wasn't it established earlier on that the Mounties were there for stolen property unrelated to the grow op? Or am I mistaken...

The Mounties weren't there just for pot, there was stolen merchandise or stolen auto's or stolen something on the farm as well.

Like I said earlier, I havent read the whole story, but if thats the fact then I am totally off base here...

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm@Mar 5 2005, 01:23 AM

I don't think this has much to do with pot, if pot was legal the guy who murdered those police officers would still be a nut job and probably would have been doing something else. Making pot legal wouldn't have stop this.

Probably the best point in the thread. I seriously doubt marijuana led this guy off the rosy path.

Easily the most important aspect to this is the fact that he killed himself. He wasn't merely defending his merchandise from thieves, the guy had legitimately lost it. If he was at all rational, he'd have used the initiative that it sounds like he had to take off and cut his losses.

I seriously doubt grow-house-operators sit around stroking weapons, waiting to die for weed that's probably not even theirs. Pretty thin scenario.

[Superfraggle]

Originally posted by Sammie+Mar 4 2005, 06:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sammie @ Mar 4 2005, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Superfraggle@Mar 4 2005, 07:11 PM
ummmm....he did kind of answer those questions in his post if you had bothered to read it a little more closely, rather than immediately dismiss what he had to say and assume you know best.

Perhaps if you'd read our comments more carefully you would have noticed he said the gun registry was useful to police and I'm say it is totally useless to police.

Do you always accuse people who disagree with you of forcing their opinions on you because they think they know best? I suppose you think YOUR superior opinions should go unchallenged and be accepted as the gospel truth. [/b][/quote]
so hostile...I don't remember giving an opinion one way or the other on this particular subject, so it would be difficult for you to challenge them, I suppose. Had I done so, you would be welcome to challenge them. I did read both of your comments pretty carefully. He said it was useful and gave reasons why. You said it was useless and then asked for reasons it was useful. Reasons I was pointing out he had already given, which you would presumably have known had you read his post more carefully. From this, I drew the inference that you didn't consider his post to have been worth the read. Maybe that inference was in error and/or unfair. I can accept that. There was, however, a basis for it, unlike your reciprocating attack on me.

[Sammie]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Mar 4 2005, 07:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Mar 4 2005, 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sammie@Mar 4 2005, 07:39 PM
According to what I heard reported in the news by neighbors and family members, this guy became especially dangerous and insane whenever he was high. So I wouldn't discount the role drugs played in these killings.

Not to get into semantics but I bet when he got high he was on more then just the reefer. Going dangerous and insane is not a characteristic of someone who has smoked pot. More like lazy and useless.

By the way, I am not discoutning the role drugs played in this tragedy.. I hope thats not what is coming across... [/b][/quote]
No that's not the way you came across but I thought it should be pointed out that drugs may very well have affected the behavior of this guy beside his desire to protect his illegal "cash crop".

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Sammie@Mar 5 2005, 01:07 AM
"To say gun registry is a waste of money because it won't stop people from killing with guns is the same as saying that police are a waste of money because they can't do the job either."

That bit of logic makes about as much sense as a sack full of dead mice!

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

By saying that it is a waste of money because it can't stop a crime from happening would be exactly the same as saying that a police force is useless because it can't stop crime happening. It's what it CAN do that should be what you look at.

You're saying that gun registry is useless because it can't do what you think it should, and I'm telling you what it can do.

It's really simple to follow Sammie. It's fine if you disagree, but if you can't understand it, then you must have a problem.

[Sammie]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Mar 4 2005, 07:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Mar 4 2005, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sammie@Mar 5 2005, 01:07 AM
"To say gun registry is a waste of money because it won't stop people from killing with guns is the same as saying that police are a waste of money because they can't do the job either."

That bit of logic makes about as much sense as a sack full of dead mice!

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

By saying that it is a waste of money because it can't stop a crime from happening would be exactly the same as saying that a police force is useless because it can't stop crime happening. It's what it CAN do that should be what you look at.

You're saying that gun registry is useless because it can't do what you think it should, and I'm telling you what it can do.

It's really simple to follow Sammie. It's fine if you disagree, but if you can't understand it, then you must have a problem. [/b][/quote]
Let me put it real simple. The gun registry is useless information that doesn't help the police stop crooks with unregister semi-automatic weapons. It's $2 billions p@ssed down the drain and does nothing to stop a maniac from killing 4 pillars of our society who were on the front lines every day so scum won't steal our cars or prey on our children with drugs or sex.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Sammie+Mar 5 2005, 02:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sammie @ Mar 5 2005, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

By saying that it is a waste of money because it can't stop a crime from happening would be exactly the same as saying that a police force is useless because it can't stop crime happening. It's what it CAN do that should be what you look at.

You're saying that gun registry is useless because it can't do what you think it should, and I'm telling you what it can do.

It's really simple to follow Sammie. It's fine if you disagree, but if you can't understand it, then you must have a problem.

Let me put it real simple. The gun registry is useless information that doesn't help the police stop crooks with unregister semi-automatic weapons. It's $2 billions p@ssed down the drain and does nothing to stop a maniac from killing 4 pillars of our society who were on the front lines every day so scum won't steal our cars or prey on our children with drugs or sex. [/b][/quote]
What if the crooks used registered weapons...

[calf]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Mar 4 2005, 07:17 PM
What if the crooks used registered weapons...

Crooks aren't stupid enough to use registered weapons. They'll go through the black market where they can't be traced.

...well, the organized ones at least

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by calf+Mar 5 2005, 02:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Mar 5 2005, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Agamemnon@Mar 4 2005, 07:17 PM
What if the crooks used registered weapons...

Crooks aren't stupid enough to use registered weapons. They'll go through the black market where they can't be traced.

...well, the organized ones at least[/b][/quote]
Well, I think that was his point. Sammie said the Gun Registry did _nothing_, Flames Addiction was pointing out that it could do _something_, like bust any crook using a registered weapon.

You say yourself in your post, organized crime maybe. Is every shot fired faulted to organized crime? I bet there are a whole lot of domestic crimes, crimes of passion, etc. that are used with legitimately bought and registered weapons.

Not that I care, I'm just really into debating semantics :P

Anyway, again, it totally sucks that these guys were killed. What a frigging nightmare.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by calf+Mar 5 2005, 02:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Mar 5 2005, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Agamemnon@Mar 4 2005, 07:17 PM
What if the crooks used registered weapons...

Crooks aren't stupid enough to use registered weapons. They'll go through the black market where they can't be traced.

...well, the organized ones at least [/b][/quote]
But if they discover an unregistered weapon in someone's possession, it's a good indication that the person is likely up to no good and it gives the police grounds to investigate the person. Not to mention, not all crimes are done by people who are career criminals.

Plus, you can bet that some crimes (mainly crimes of passion) will still sometimes be done with a gun that is registered. The U.S. has gun registry and I imagine that often it can help in investigations.

I have yet to meet a cop who doesn't like the idea of gun registry.

[calf]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Mar 4 2005, 07:31 PM
Well, I think that was his point. Sammie said the Gun Registry did _nothing_, Flames Addiction was pointing out that it could do _something_, like bust any crook using a registered weapon.

You say yourself in your post, organized crime maybe. Is every shot fired faulted to organized crime? I bet there are a whole lot of domestic crimes, crimes of passion, etc. that are used with legitimately bought and registered weapons.

Not that I care, I'm just really into debating semantics :P

Anyway, again, it totally sucks that these guys were killed. What a frigging nightmare.

well yea, I structured my post the way I did on purpose. I personally think the gun registry penalizes legitimate gun users, but if it catches people who commit crimes, that's a good thing - it's unfortunate the money pit it has become....but that's another thread.

I noticed on the news tonight that the guy has a pretty detailed criminal record with violent crimes (pointing a fire arm multiple times, sexual assault), so the guy was well known to police and the community as a lunatic - very unfortunate and tragic that this guy couldn't be kept in check.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Mar 5 2005, 01:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Mar 5 2005, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sammie@Mar 4 2005, 07:39 PM
According to what I heard reported in the news by neighbors and family members, this guy became especially dangerous and insane whenever he was high. So I wouldn't discount the role drugs played in these killings.

Not to get into semantics but I bet when he got high he was on more then just the reefer. Going dangerous and insane is not a characteristic of someone who has smoked pot. More like lazy and useless.

By the way, I am not discoutning the role drugs played in this tragedy.. I hope thats not what is coming across... [/b][/quote]
Not sure if you can say that, one of the side effects of Marijuana is an increased level of paranoia and possible hallucinations.

Also there is the decrease of social inhibitions.

Altered motivation and cognition.

Now combine the effects of dope with a paranoid wackjob and you get four dead RCMP officers who should be at home with thier families tonight.

.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+Mar 4 2005, 10:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ Mar 4 2005, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Not to get into semantics but I bet when he got high he was on more then just the reefer. Going dangerous and insane is not a characteristic of someone who has smoked pot. More like lazy and useless.

By the way, I am not discoutning the role drugs played in this tragedy.. I hope thats not what is coming across...

Not sure if you can say that, one of the side effects of Marijuana is an increased level of paranoia and possible hallucinations.

Also there is the decrease of social inhibitions.

Altered motivation and cognition.

Now combine the effects of dope with a paranoid wackjob and you get four dead RCMP officers who should be at home with thier families tonight.

. [/b][/quote]
Maybe he was drunk?

[Sammie]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Mar 4 2005, 08:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Mar 4 2005, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Crooks aren't stupid enough to use registered weapons. They'll go through the black market where they can't be traced.

...well, the organized ones at least

But if they discover an unregistered weapon in someone's possession, it's a good indication that the person is likely up to no good and it gives the police grounds to investigate the person. Not to mention, not all crimes are done by people who are career criminals.

Plus, you can bet that some crimes (mainly crimes of passion) will still sometimes be done with a gun that is registered. The U.S. has gun registry and I imagine that often it can help in investigations.

I have yet to meet a cop who doesn't like the idea of gun registry. [/b][/quote]
That's one of my points. There are literally 10s of 1,000s of law abiding citizens who have not registered their firearms in protest of bad law that's gone out of control. Just because a person has an unregistered gun means nothing.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Sammie@Mar 5 2005, 07:40 AM
That's one of my points. There are literally 10s of 1,000s of law abiding citizens who have not registered their firearms in protest of bad law that's gone out of control. Just because a person has an unregistered gun means nothing.

I guess you could say that there are thousands of law abiding citizens who grow pot because they disagree with the law then too.

[Resolute 14]

Actually, the mounties were there to seize property. They found the pot operation after. When they got the warrant to search for the pot, they found stolen property.

If he didnt have debts that required to be payed off, neither the pot growing operation nor the stolen property would have been discovered, therefore the mounties would have had no reason to guard a crime scene.

I find it absolutely fascinating that the entire nation is making such a huge issue out of this being a "drug bust" when drugs werent even the initial reason for entering his property.

This guy was a flat out evil criminal. His marijuana growing operation was only one facet of his illegal activities.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Mar 4 2005, 07:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Mar 4 2005, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Crooks aren't stupid enough to use registered weapons. They'll go through the black market where they can't be traced.

...well, the organized ones at least

But if they discover an unregistered weapon in someone's possession, it's a good indication that the person is likely up to no good and it gives the police grounds to investigate the person. Not to mention, not all crimes are done by people who are career criminals.

Plus, you can bet that some crimes (mainly crimes of passion) will still sometimes be done with a gun that is registered. The U.S. has gun registry and I imagine that often it can help in investigations.

I have yet to meet a cop who doesn't like the idea of gun registry. [/b][/quote]
Don't know many police officers I take it, every officer I have ever talked to has said that while gun control is a great idea in theory in practice it is completely useless. I don't know who you talked to but I get to take courses with different police officers, and I regularly go to seminars that have officers in attendence, and whenever I ask I get the same response.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have 2 sisters who are ex-officers (one is now a prison guard) and a brother in law who is a detective, and a close family friend who is RCMP, and they all think it is a great idea.