Was Paul Hinman campaigning outside a polling station today?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If you believe shaking hands outside a polling station, and forming a coalition in a power grab with a party you specifically said you wouldn't just weeks earlier, are comparable... then i guess you could use such an analogy.



Do you honestly think this is what won the election though?? Really? If so i would agree, but i see it as a politician campaigning to the very end...and possibly well within the rules of doing so. Really the antithesis of "not democratic" from where i sit.

Again i guess if it its some long standing tradition to not do so, i can see where some may be upset....but to launch a complaint is just plain spiteful IMO. (Unless he was truly breaking a law of course).

I don't think that this is what won him the election, but it is against the law. (The law is kind of a grey area here, so there is some interpretation involved. I would suggest that a candidate shaking hands and telling people his party affiliation as they enter a polling station is campaigning).

If this was a legitimate thing to do then why wouldn't every candidate in every riding across canada do this? Why don't they park a van with signs all over it 100 ft away, or have a giant tailgate party in the parking lot of the polling station? Quite clearly there are two reasons...its tacky and douchy at the very least or quite probably would be openly campaigning.

[transplant99]

I would suggest that a candidate shaking hands and telling people his party affiliation as they enter a polling station is campaigning.

I would agree....but it isnt illegal to campaign on election day. Its only illegal to do in the polling station, at the door or if a voter is in line. Also in the parking lots.

So again...he was certainly pushing the envelope here, but not sure he was breaking the law.

If this was a legitimate thing to do then why wouldn't every candidate in every riding across canada do this?

Maybe they should? I dont know...like i said i have a feeling its more of a tradition than anything, to put down the signs and flyers once D day arrives.

Quite clearly there are two reasons...its tacky and douchy at the very least or quite probably would be openly campaigning.

Niether of which are illegal.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not bitter at all actually and just find it incredibly entertaining to argue about politics!

As far as strategic voting and leadership races I haven't come up with an original idea here. Lots of people took out memberships for the PC's to vote for the candidate they thought was the weakest of three and it happens a lot.

I should also point out something that might be lost in translation here. I don't HATE the WRA or anyone really for that matter. Its just politics. Some of my best friends in the world are far right enough that they would love the WRA and what they stand for...but again its just politics. It doesn't mean that we hate each other or can't hang out. Sometimes different people have differing views on how the world should be run, thats all.

I don't care if the idea isn't original. If you're going to talk about poor taste in politics and agree with the OP, well you might not want to look like so much of a hypocrite by having equally poor taste in buying a WRA membership just so you can do your part to make the party fail.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If you believe shaking hands outside a polling station, and forming a coalition in a power grab with a party you specifically said you wouldn't just weeks earlier, are comparable... then i guess you could use such an analogy.

They're only comparable in that neither is an existential threat to our democracy. I should think that was relatively clear.

Do you honestly think this is what won the election though?? Really?

Heck no. That would be crazy. Good thing that isn't what I said--what I actually said was "bending the rules to win an election" is tacky.

And for the record, Hinman didn't know he would win--his own polling had him running in third place just a short while ago. So his agenda in doing this was clearly to get more votes--which is natural enough. However, if he's right outside the polling place, it's also technically against the rules. That's not going to bring down our democracy. But it is tacky to break the rules. Rules are there for a reason.

Again i guess if it its some long standing tradition to not do so, i can see where some may be upset....but to launch a complaint is just plain spiteful IMO. (Unless he was truly breaking a law of course).

In that case, let's wait to see what the officials in charge say about it. The last word is that they are investigating the matter. As I said before, the worst case scenario is a 500 dollar fine, so we're not talking about the fate of our democracy here. Just a tacky, unnecessary situation that an experienced politician should know better than to put himself in.

Which is to say this: regardless of how it turns out, it looks bad to do what he was doing. In politics, perception is reality; Hinman should have a keener sense of optics than that, and should as a matter of course follow all of the rules that he's called upon to follow. It's called behaving ethically even when you don't believe that doing so is in your interest.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Which is to say this: regardless of how it turns out, it looks bad to do what he was doing. In politics, perception is reality; Hinman should have a keener sense of optics than that, and should as a matter of course follow all of the rules that he's called upon to follow. It's called behaving ethically even when you don't believe that doing so is in your interest.

It looks bad to bitter Liberals, that's about it. Things like this don't help the Alberta Liberals differentiate themselves from the Federal Liberals at all. As usual, they attempt cover up their own lack of ideas by arguing how much the other guy sucks.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It looks bad to bitter Liberals, that's about it. Things like this don't help the Alberta Liberals differentiate themselves from the Federal Liberals at all. As usual, they attempt cover up their own lack of ideas by arguing how much the other guy sucks.

Might be time to watch the video. Hinman looks very much like a guy who knows what he's doing is wrong, and the presence of a camera makes him suddenly self-conscious.

If you had ever met Kent Hehr, you would never describe him as "bitter." He's a guy who has overcome tremendous adversity and yet has kept an unbelievably positive outlook on life. He's a great guy and a very good MLA.

And let's put it this way. If Kent Hehr isn't bitter about the guy who paralyzed him in a drive-by shooting, he sure as heck isn't bitter at an inconsequential figure like Paul Hinman. Let's keep some perspective here. Hinman was doing something Hehr believed was illegal. Hehr called him out on it, and brought a video camera so that he could provide evidence to the proper authorities.

I don't really get why that's "bitter"--especially since a) it all took place before the election happened and b) no reasonable person expected the Liberals to win anyway. Kent Hehr is a lawyer; he cares about the rules. That's all this is really about. I might have done the same thing in his situation, and I'm really the farthest thing from "bitter."

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't care if the idea isn't original. If you're going to talk about poor taste in politics and agree with the OP, well you might not want to look like so much of a hypocrite by having equally poor taste in buying a WRA membership just so you can do your part to make the party fail.

What you consider poor taste isn't though. I will be voting for the candidate that I want to win. He wants to be the leader and in my opinion would be the best representative for the party. This has nothing to do with poor taste whatsoever except that you prefer the other candidate.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't care if the idea isn't original. If you're going to talk about poor taste in politics and agree with the OP, well you might not want to look like so much of a hypocrite by having equally poor taste in buying a WRA membership just so you can do your part to make the party fail.

Keep friends close, enemies closer?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

What you consider poor taste isn't though. I will be voting for the candidate that I want to win. He wants to be the leader and in my opinion would be the best representative for the party. This has nothing to do with poor taste whatsoever except that you prefer the other candidate.

Except you don't really believe that he is the 'best' candidate insofar that he would do the best job.

You will vote for him because you think he'll ruin the party. Not because he'll be someone who leads the WRA to bigger and better things. You don't want the WRA to succeed because you're scared that they'll take away votes that could be going to the Liberals.

I prefer Danielle Smith because I think she will do a good job and help take the WRA to become an even more mainstream party. I will continue voting for the WRA in the future as well. Will you?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Azure

Except you don't really believe that he is the 'best' candidate insofar that he would do the best job.

You will vote for him because you think he'll ruin the party. Not because he'll be someone who leads the WRA to bigger and better things. You don't want the WRA to succeed because you're scared that they'll take away votes that could be going to the Liberals.

I prefer Danielle Smith because I think she will do a good job and help take the WRA to become an even more mainstream party. I will continue voting for the WRA in the future as well. Will you?

This kind of thing happens all the time - didn't thousands of ditto-heads join the Democratic party in 2008 to inflame the Dem primaries?

Kingmaking.

[Gozer]

Dems voting for McCain...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by troutman

This kind of things happens all the time - didn't thousands of ditto-heads join the Democratic party in 2008 to inflame the Dem primaries.

Yes they did.

Did it to try and get Hillary elected or something.

Either way, it doesn't make it right. If you're not intending to actually BE a WRA member, and VOTE WRA....provided they elect a leader you're happy with, its classless to try and mess up a process like this just because you hate the party.

I mean, if we're going to talk about Hinman being a jerk and campaigning outside of a polling station and how classless that is, why don't we all just call a spade a spade?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Dems voting for McCain...

Same thing I would assume.

Its dirty politics and exactly what we shouldn't be involved in. But I guess its justified for some people, even as they stand on their pedestal and call someone else classless for doing something they didn't agree with.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Azure

Same thing I would assume.

Its dirty politics and exactly what we shouldn't be involved in. But I guess its justified for some people, even as they stand on their pedestal and call someone else classless for doing something they didn't agree with.

Politics is dirty business, not for the faint of heart. Unfortunately.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by troutman

Politics is dirty business, not for the faint of heart. Unfortunately.

It is only because we allow it to be.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

Same thing I would assume.

Its dirty politics and exactly what we shouldn't be involved in. But I guess its justified for some people, even as they stand on their pedestal and call someone else classless for doing something they didn't agree with.

Get off your high horse. Hinman is standing outside a polling station for 4 hours with a placard on introducing himself to voters. I'm buying a membership to vote for a candidate who is openly running in an election.

You don't lime him as leader for the same reason that I like him. I know that what I am about to confess to will make you mad...I also supported Joe Clark when he ran in Calgary Centre even though I didn't want a PC government!

How many people voted WRA yesterday just because they didn't want the Liberals or PC's to win? That is just what happens in an election.

[Azure]

I have never said that what Hinman did was perfectly okay.

You on the other hand have a problem with dirty politics on one hand, but on the other hand you yourself are engaging in a different form of it.

Don't try to play it off that you're just voting for a candidate, because your reasons behind voting for that candidate are what makes the difference.

Assuming your candidate wins, will you vote WRA come next election?

[The Special One]

Fair play to this Hinman fellow, I'm a big left winger myself but it is nice to see some potential opposition, extreme right-wing as it may be.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Screw that . . . Kang is the one who should lead our people

When did Micheal Ansara join the WRA?

[Julio]

I goota agree with Slava on this one...he paid his $10, he'll have Firefly sending him emails and such for years to come...(and not the ones he's always hoped for from her) and for that he gets to vote for the leader of the party...
That's nothing compared to what happened when the Cons had the leadership campaign that elected Stelmach. A buddy of mine who is a carpenter asked me who he should vote for in the Con leadership race...most apolitical guy I know...the union local bought everybody a membership. Now THATS messed up.