WOW, You Canadians and your Healthcare

[ernie]

I have a co-worker whose 3 year old stood up in a shopping cart and fell head first onto the floor in Walmart. The sound was described like a watermelon hitting the floor. They went urgent care here in Missouri and she was assessed to be fine. 5 days later she woke up with a grapefruit sized soft bump on her head. A doctor friend said she needed an immediate catscan. She got it. Then got airlifted to a larger center for further tests and more specialized doctors. Thanfully while she had a blood clot it was going away (and continues to do so 4 weeks later).

You can imagine what this bill is going to be if they get put on the hook with it. Of course the insurance company says "oh no problem it's covered just fill out this paperwork". That paperwork gets filled out and they get a letter in the mail that they have to prove his wife doesn't have healthcare coverage from another provider (she doesn't). They tell them the only thing they need to do is write a letter saying she doesn't have coverage. A few days later anohter letter from the insurance company saying "yeah that letter isn't good enough you'll have to find another way to prove you don't have insurance." So right now they are trying to figure out exactly how to prove something like that. The kicker is if YOU do no get them everything they need to rpocess the claim within 45 days they will not pay it. So this is what they do...give people the run around for 45 days (given my co-workers wife is a nurse she's seen this insurance company behaviour before). Everyone is hopeful things get straightened out in the next couple of weeks. Our HR department has been very helpful in helping them deal with the insurance company the last week or so.

And their insurance company crap even goes to their house insurance. We had a wind storm in May that uprooted 20-30% of the trees in our neighbourhood and caused some roof damage on a number of houses including theirs. They filed a claim to get the work the done and the insurance company dropped them immediately because of too many claims (they had a roof claim from 6-7 years ago...from another storm). Of course then the bank called and said you need insurance by such and such a date or we will reposess the house. So they try to get another insurance company and some won't even quote because of one past claim, some quote outrageous prices and the ones the quote reasonable rates put a clause in that they can't put a claim in for X amount of time. Basically, for them to get coverage they will have to pay out of pocket to fix the roof.

The insurance industry down here is simply out of control.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Nothing.

Don't kid yourself, it's not free, you're paying for it in your taxes.

I'm wondering if the cost to provide service is higher or lower in Canada, regardless of whether the individual or the government pays.

It would be interesting to see the comparison. I think that every Canadian who uses the healthcare system should have visibility to the costs they are incurring on the system.

[Displaced Flames fan]

ernie....

Who was their homeowner's insurance provider?

My health insurance company just sends an affidavit for you to sign saying that you don't have other insurance. Done.

Sounds like your friend has some pretty unfortunate insurance company choices.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Don't kid yourself, it's not free, you're paying for it in your taxes.

I'm wondering if the cost to provide service is higher or lower in Canada, regardless of whether the individual or the government pays.

It would be interesting to see the comparison. I think that every Canadian who uses the healthcare system should have visibility to the costs they are incurring on the system.

I didn't say it was free. I said 'nothing'. I might be paying for it in my taxes but they aren't going up or down dependent upon one incident. If I get an appendectomy, it's not like the government is going to raise taxes because of it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

this is such a stupid argument, and one i can't believe gets so much traction in the states. so you'll trust your government to protect your freedom with the military, to protect and serve locally with a police force, to protect homes and businesses from fire, and to educate your children. but yet somehow the government is too stupid to be trusted to provide you healthcare

I don't trust the government to do any of that right.

Sadly, even after every screwup they make, people still fail to see just how inept and pathetic the government really is.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Cheaper for who? The government or the consumer?

It would be interesting to see how wages compare between the two nations. Health insurance premiums are always lauded as the biggest financial roadblock for private corporations.

Don't quote me on these figures, but I've read that overhead, administration fees, shareholder profit, etc,. represents over 30% of all healthcare spending in the United States and less than 3% in Canada. Those numbers aren't exactly correct, but they're pretty close. Single-payer socialized healthcare eliminates a great amount of the costly bureaucracy that plagues the American private insurance system.

Per capita, Americans spend nearly twice as much on healthcare (public and private combined) than Canadians do, yet health outcomes for the same condition are more or less equivalent between the two nations.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Blasphemy! Government run programs are always more expensive and bureaucratic! Stop buying into the government propaganda!

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

cheaper for the government, and vastly cheaper for those with real medical issues

Really? Please point out just exactly how Obama's plan will be cheaper from the private plans being offered right now?

If you can spin the numbers and get them to show that it will cost less than the $666/month, well then please do it, because Obama and the Democrats have a job waiting for you in Washington.

There is a REASON the blue-dog Democrats are telling Obama to slow the hell down. There is a REASON they are fighting against this bill.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

Really? Please point out just exactly how Obama's plan will be cheaper from the private plans being offered right now?

If you can spin the numbers and get them to show that it will cost less than the $666/month, well then please do it, because Obama and the Democrats have a job waiting for you in Washington.

There is a REASON the blue-dog Democrats are telling Obama to slow the hell down. There is a REASON they are fighting against this bill.

i'm not talking about the mess that they're creating in the US, i'm comparing their current system to ours or any other universal system in the world. Obama's problem is that he won't just do what's needed and overhaul the system from the ground up. he's trying patchwork to a broken system which is just going to make it even more of a mess

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Don't quote me on these figures, but I've read that overhead, administration fees, shareholder profit, etc,. represents over 30% of all healthcare spending in the United States and less than 3% in Canada. Those numbers aren't exactly correct, but they're pretty close. Single-payer socialized healthcare eliminates a great amount of the costly bureaucracy that plagues the American private insurance system.

Per capita, Americans spend nearly twice as much on healthcare (public and private combined) than Canadians do, yet health outcomes for the same condition are more or less equivalent between the two nations.

lol.

Canada is long ways away from having the bloated government that the US has.

I don't see how you can expect the results of a universal health care program to be the same, when two things are vastly different.

First of all, the 270 million MORE people that the US has to look after, and secondly, the fact that the dumbass Democrats want to push through a FEDERAL system.

Last time I checked, each province in Canada looks after their own health care.

The US government can't get Social Security right without wasting billions, they can't manage a war properly without wasting billions, and they can't even regulate the banking industry without LOOSING billions.

And you seriously think that they can run a federally mandated universal health care program any better?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Obama's problem is that he won't just do what's needed and overhaul the system from the ground up. he's trying patchwork to a broken system which is just going to make it even more of a mess

Obama's problem is that the thinks the US 'federal' government is the solution to all the problems in the United States.

His stupid health care program is just another example of his ridiculous agenda to give Washington even more power.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't trust the government to do any of that right.

Sadly, even after every screwup they make, people still fail to see just how inept and pathetic the government really is.

You'd prefer to trust your health to a corporation motivated by maximizing shareholder value rather than the government? Do you think the fire department and police service should be privatized too?

I'm absolutely NOT an anti-business hippy communist, but I don't want any of those essential services run by a private for-profit company.

Public health authorities are accountable to the government which is in turn held accountable to the voters. Private insurance providers are accountable to their board of directors and share holders.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You'd prefer to trust your health to a corporation motivated by maximizing shareholder value rather than the government? Do you think the fire department and police service should be privatized too?

I'm absolutely NOT an anti-business hippy communist, but I don't want any of those essential services run by a private for-profit company.

Public health authorities are accountable to the government which is in turn held accountable to the voters. Private insurance providers are accountable to their board of directors and share holders.

No, I would rather trust my health care to the STATE government.

You know, the same government that runs the police and the fire department.

There is also a way to make private companies be accountable to a certain level as well. But Obama isn't interested in any of that.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Azure

No, I would rather trust my health care to the STATE government.

Azure supports socialist style healthcare. You heard it here first folks!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Azure supports socialist style healthcare. You heard it here first folks!

No, what I actually prefer is that each state can decide what kind of health care they will provide.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Azure

No, what I actually prefer is that each state can decide what kind of health care they will provide.

Dude, can you take a joke? Just relax, I'm teasing you.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Azure

lol.

Canada is long ways away from having the bloated government that the US has.

I don't see how you can expect the results of a universal health care program to be the same, when two things are vastly different.

First of all, the 270 million MORE people that the US has to look after, and secondly, the fact that the dumbass Democrats want to push through a FEDERAL system.

Last time I checked, each province in Canada looks after their own health care.

The US government can't get Social Security right without wasting billions, they can't manage a war properly without wasting billions, and they can't even regulate the banking industry without LOOSING billions.

And you seriously think that they can run a federally mandated universal health care program any better?

Yes they do, but they have to do so within the mandate of meeting the requirements as specified by the Canada Health Act.

Now you can choose your means of delivery of health care as long as you meet that mandate.

You can also choose a means of delivery that does not meet the mandate of the Canada Health Act, you do have that perogative. However, at that point in time, the province is on its own for funding and will not qualify for health transfer payments from the Feds.

[Azure]

And there is nothing wrong with a certain standard that applies to the whole country.

My problem is with a system based around federal government control.

[vicphoenix13]

What should scare Americans is how insurance companies have gone wild in their current healthcare system. Since Bill Clinton left office in early 2001, the average premium has doubled in cost. Not only that, the health insurance providers are kicking off people at any time because of pre-existing conditions. And the biggest insult is that health insurance companies tell their clients which hospital is approved for treatment. Then when you finally get to the hospital, the doctor makes you fill out a bunch of paperwork. That is a broken system.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by vicphoenix13

What should scare Americans is how insurance companies have gone wild in their current healthcare system. Since Bill Clinton left office in early 2001, the average premium has doubled in cost. Not only that, the health insurance providers are kicking off people at any time because of pre-existing conditions. And the biggest insult is that health insurance companies tell their clients which hospital is approved for treatment. Then when you finally get to the hospital, the doctor makes you fill out a bunch of paperwork. That is a broken system.

You are describing HMO plans.

You are generalizing.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by llama64

Our society is spending money to train health care workers only to lose them to better opportunities in other countries. It's a massive problem and one I would prioritize over everything else.

It's not hard to build buildings and buy equipment. It is hard to retain talent and especially hard when you can't even keep the talent you train yourself.

As one of those health care professionals, I'm telling you that your perception is wrong with regards to the magnitude of doctor "brain drain".
There is actually much more of an intranational brain-drain going on, with the West attracting alot of specialists from the eastern provinces (leaving them much more underserviced)

The largest problem has more to do with logistics, as I've already stated. Funny you think it would be easy to build appropriate buildings and buy equipment - its not.