Conservatives To Slash Federal Funding of Political Parties [Update-CPC backs down]

[Canuck-Hater]

This is exactly why i refuse to vote conservative! It used to be illegal to call early elections in the first place.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Becuase the cap is still much higher then what most individuals can pay. My assumption is that Conservatives get much more support from the wealthy and big business then parties like the NDP and Green. Therefore if there's 10 private donations to the Conservatives vs 10 private to Green the differnence in amounts will be huge, allowing the Conservatives to campaing much better in the interests of their voters.

There always was and should be a difference, but this will only make it bigger, and IMO, it doesn't need to be. I have no problem with the Conservatives having more money to campaign, when they are the governing and most popular party, but the tax system helped the smaller parties have a voice they might not be able to have with private funding alone. It was a system based on # of supporters, where as private funding comes down to wealth of supporters.

You know why the Conservatives and to some extent, the NDP, have been so successful in the current fundraising landscape? NO DONATION IS TOO SMALL. It's worth far more to purse 100 $25 donations than 2 or 3 $1100 donations.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

This is exactly why i refuse to vote conservative!

Why? For overturning a 6 year old law that was legislated to benefit the party in power (the Liberals...)? Come on, you have to have deeper political motivations than that...

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The ultimate democracy is forcing parties to gain support on their own, and with it raise funds.

I'll keep my loonie.

How is that Democratic? I will reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread. People in higher income brackets will have more money to give their preferred political party. People in lower income brackets will have less money to give to their preferred political party. Each group is bound to have different issue concerns and support a different party. Therefore under a system where parties raise their own money, a working class party with the same amount of voting support as a business party will raise less funds. Which makes in harder for the working class party to compete. You see how that isn't democratic?

Removing this funding is definitely more capitalistic but definitely not more democratic. Let's not pretend this upholds democracy no matter what your view on the issue is.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Rathji

So unless I am mistaking some posters on this board before 6 years ago there was not true democracy in Canada?

The law simply bettered the Canadian democracy. Obviously, Canada isn't a perfect democracy and it can always look into making itself a better, more fair one.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

The law simply bettered the Canadian democracy. Obviously, Canada isn't a perfect democracy and it can always look into making itself a better, more fair one.

That is a total value-laden statement. Quantify it. What are some measurable effects that would be "better for democracy" that resulted from this piece of legislation. Never mind that when the original piece was passed it was done so to primarily benefit the Liberal Party and hurt the opposition.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, seeing as how you apparently know next to nothing about the current legal landscape regarding Canadian electoral law, I'd say my comment was totally fair.

Big business is out of elections and we should all realize that and be grateful.

Why don't you enlighten me then, instead of dancing around the issue and being a pompous a-hole?
If I'm the one who knows nothing, why have you still not contributed anythign to the thread?
Is your knowlege too great to share all mighty a-hole?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Why don't you enlighten me then, instead of dancing around the issue and being a pompous a-hole?
If I'm the one who knows nothing, why have you still not contributed anythign to the thread?
Is your knowlege too great to share all mighty a-hole?

I've posted about 10 times in this thread...

Maximum donation is $1100 per individual. Big business has NO direct impact upon the fundraising of political parties. This has to be one of the most highly regulated areas of Canadian law. No one gets away with electoral fraud.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

How is that Democratic? I will reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread. People in higher income brackets will have more money to give their preferred political party. People in lower income brackets will have less money to give to their preferred political party. Each group is bound to have different issue concerns and support a different party. Therefore under a system where parties raise their own money, a working class party with the same amount of voting support as a business party will raise less funds. Which makes in harder for the working class party to compete. You see how that isn't democratic?

Removing this funding is definitely more capitalistic but definitely not more democratic. Let's not pretend this upholds democracy no matter what your view on the issue is.

You do know that rich and poor people each have one vote each under the democratic system? So the poor and rich each have the same individual power in selecting our government. Its not like they're selling votes here.

Also because they've put firm donation amounts in place that represent very low numbers, its impossible for anyone to really influence government policy like the banks and other big corporations could do in the old days when they poured massive donations into the Liberal coffers.

The conservatives are just as happy in getting $25.00 donations from their grassroots supporters, as they are getting the max 1000.00 donation. And if you look at the fund raising numbers, when the Conservatives are getting 10's of million dollars, I find it hard to believe that some rich guy giving $1000.00 is going to influence policy.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by peter12

You know why the Conservatives and to some extent, the NDP, have been so successful in the current fundraising landscape? NO DONATION IS TOO SMALL. It's worth far more to purse 100 $25 donations than 2 or 3 $1100 donations.

yeah, but in reality the Conservatives are gonna get 100 $1100 donations for every 100 $25 donations the Greens or Bloc get.
Your made up numbers are completely false all might god of political knowlege

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yeah, but in reality the Conservatives are gonna get 100 $1100 donations for every 100 $25 donations the Greens or Bloc get.
Your made up numbers are completely false all might god of political knowlege

Who cares how much money they get as long as you're voting for the party you want? It isn't that hard to get your platform across as a party.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by peter12

That is a total value-laden statement. Quantify it. What are some measurable effects that would be "better for democracy" that resulted from this piece of legislation. Never mind that when the original piece was passed it was done so to primarily benefit the Liberal Party and hurt the opposition.

It was meant to be a values statement clarifying the values-based view that this funding is a good thing. Rathji's comment missed the point IMO so I commented on that.

I don't have time to quantify it nor am I asking others to quantify their points. I just thought I state my view on the issue with a basic explanation.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yeah, but in reality the Conservatives are gonna get 100 $1100 donations for every 100 $25 donations the Greens or Bloc get.
Your made up numbers are completely false all might god of political knowlege

Well, they raise about $15 million/year so, unless there are that many "rich" donors out there, I'd suggest a much more likely route... That they hit up anyone for cash no matter what the amount, and they keep hitting them up until they give them cash.

As a Dipper, you shouldn't be all whiny. The NDP are starting to figure this out and have a pretty decent fundraising framework in place. Much better than the Liberals anyway.

In fact, this policy only hurts the Liberal Party and the Bloc. I don't care about the Bloc. If you are a nationalist party that claims to speak for the Quebec grassroots, you should have no problem raising funds. As for the Liberals, they have been the bastion of Canadian elitism for generations.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

It was meant to be a values statement clarifying the values-based view that this funding is a good thing. Rathji's comment missed the point IMO so I commented on that.

I don't have time to quantify it nor am I asking others to quantify their points. I just thought I state my view on the issue with a basic explanation.

In any political debate, you can't make positive statements without some degree of quantification.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yeah, but in reality the Conservatives are gonna get 100 $1100 donations for every 100 $25 donations the Greens or Bloc get.
Your made up numbers are completely false all might god of political knowlege

So? Maybe the greens and bloc should:
1) Do more fundraising to get their base donating
2) Run on a platform that is more tolerable by the mainstream to increase their base.

Assuming that there are more "average canadians" out there that would vote for the liberals or some fringe party, they should be able to tip the scales by donating en masse to counteract the few evil fat cat oil tycoons that are the end all and be all of the conservative base and are always donating to the max for every election.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by fotze

The most democratic way that no one could disagree with is to have a check box at the very end of your tax form.

Do you wish to contribute 4$ to the political parties distributed according to popular vote?

Yes No

If you enter Yes, please add $4 to your tax bill. If no, carry on.

Who are you to think that using logic can solve a problem?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by fotze

The most democratic way that no one could disagree with is to have a check box at the very end of your tax form.

Do you wish to contribute 4$ to the political parties distributed according to popular vote?

Yes No

If you enter Yes, please add $4 to your tax bill. If no, carry on.

Good idea in principle. Though I'm sure the silliness of bureaucracy would add an even bigger overhead.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yeah, but in reality the Conservatives are gonna get 100 $1100 donations for every 100 $25 donations the Greens or Bloc get.
Your made up numbers are completely false all might god of political knowlege

His made up numbers? How are the numbers you provided any more solid than his? You are just guessing.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yeah, but in reality the Conservatives are gonna get 100 $1100 donations for every 100 $25 donations the Greens or Bloc get.
Your made up numbers are completely false all might god of political knowlege

Are you really making up numbers to prove that numbers someone else made up are inaccurate?

I may be misunderstanding you but if I am not it seems kinda silly.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yeah, but in reality the Conservatives are gonna get 100 $1100 donations for every 100 $25 donations the Greens or Bloc get.
Your made up numbers are completely false all might god of political knowlege

What numbers did I make up? By the way, the Bloc do next to no fundraising and rely almost entirely on this subsidy.