I never saw the last game, but it couldn't have been worse than this game. I have never seen them play so flat. And personally, I've loved Bosh as an underrated well grounded player, but after his Olympic debut, he's gotten US exposure and it's gone to his head. The guy just sulks all game when things don't go his way. While I don't believe Steven A's sources, think of the return we can get for a player like Bosh.
It is best to move him now before his value drops. If he begins to sulk more and his play gets worse and everyone finds out he wants out then the Raps will be facing Vince Carter 2.0.
I say move both right now for some great young pieces, this team obviously needs change. BC had better start making some decent moves, the Oneal trade was questionable (imo) since he had to give up the 1st as well as Ford, I was excited when he first came in but this season has been a complete mess in what was supposed to be the year the Raptors made it out of the 1st round.
Oneal looks fantastic tonight, one of the best games he's had as a Raptor. Hopefully this is going to be the performance that it takes for Miami to pull the trigger on the trade.
they had ESPN analyst Stephen A. Smith, on the score last night.
He made it fairly clear that despite bosh/raptors dismissing the rumous, as they should, he will not back down from what he states he has a fairly trustworthy source on regarding bosh wanting to head out when free agency hits, or sooner....
it was actually a fairly depressing interview from a raptor's perspective.
Toronto sports teams are really a very depressing topic these days...... can't open the toronto sun and read any good news about ANY of their teams...
I heard part of that. He made it pretty clear to me that he just surmised Bosh would leave, I doubt his "sources" are any better than Eklunds.
Did you know the "A" in Stephen Smith's name stands for EVERYTHING I SAY IS IMPORTANT!
I think Smith is a complete tool... and he is probably just making this entire thing up.
That said, it really wouldn't surprise me if Bosh has said something like that. He looks absolutely miserable (not his play, his demeanour) on the court right now....looks like he can't wait to get out of T.O.
Hopefully i'm wrong on this because he's a fantastic player... but he just doesn't look happy right now (mind you... can't blame him... the raps are AWFUL right now)
Plus moving him just makes so much sense. He is not a franchise player. He has no impact in the clutch. Is not a force on defense--in fact an average defender. He will be up for a maximum contract and he is simply not worth the money.
Plus moving him just makes so much sense. He is not a franchise player. He has no impact in the clutch. Is not a force on defense--in fact an average defender. He will be up for a maximum contract and he is simply not worth the money.
Meanwhile his trade value is high. Sell.
I'm really starting to come around to this position. I think the team feels so much pressure to win right now for Bosh's sake, and all of their moves are geared towards keeping Bosh. Trading him now (or in the offseason) will not only result in a huge return, it will allow the team to do a proper rebuild.
That's a sideways move and pointless. To make it worthwhile they need a young emerging guy and a positional fill. Say a shooting guard on the verge of breaking out and a wing. Plus a pick.
They need some picks to fill out the roster and give them some depth and some energy off the bench.
That's a sideways move and pointless. To make it worthwhile they need a young emerging guy and a positional fill. Say a shooting guard on the verge of breaking out and a wing. Plus a pick.
They need some picks to fill out the roster and give them some depth and some energy off the bench.
I don't buy that. You don't trade an all-star / olympian for depth or filler in a sport that is dominated by individuals. I believe the basketball adage of 'the team that gets the best player in a trade wins.'
A solid GM should be able to plug the holes on a team with a solid PG, star PF, and nightmare matchup C. The Ford/Rasho for O'Neal trade was terrible, and losing Delfino and Garbs really hurt this team. But trading Bosh to replace that depth would just leave us with the team that got killed by Orlando (minus Bosh).
I want to know what Marrizio Gheridini (assistiant GM) is bringing to the table.
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
I don't buy that. You don't trade an all-star / olympian for depth or filler in a sport that is dominated by individuals. I believe the basketball adage of 'the team that gets the best player in a trade wins.'
A solid GM should be able to plug the holes on a team with a solid PG, star PF, and nightmare matchup C. The Ford/Rasho for O'Neal trade was terrible, and losing Delfino and Garbs really hurt this team. But trading Bosh to replace that depth would just leave us with the team that got killed by Orlando (minus Bosh).
I want to know what Marrizio Gheridini (assistiant GM) is bringing to the table.
No you trade him for a young star to be, a good positional player and a pick which can land you another good player. In your scenario they trade Bosh for Bosh. Nobody will give them a better player in return. Bosh for Amare is a nothing move--two guys who both have less than stellar defensive games, are soft and need the ball.
They gain nothing from that move.
Marrizo one would expect from the rumours has them looking at Bellini who would be an excelllent pickup. I expect he is also helping lean the organization towards picking up Messina to coach. Biedrins is another guy with some rumours of him going to the Raps. In other words he is a Euro influence in BC's ear.
No you trade him for a young star to be, a good positional player and a pick which can land you another good player.
You won't get a legit top-end guy. Mephis traded Gasol for Jarvis Critterton, he might end up being a terrific player in a couple years but he's hardly a "star to be." I'd take a guy like Gay or Mayo, but I don't see it happening.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame
In your scenario they trade Bosh for Bosh. Nobody will give them a better player in return. Bosh for Amare is a nothing move--two guys who both have less than stellar defensive games, are soft and need the ball.
It's more of a role issue. In this new team, Amare plays under the basket while Bargs floats around. Bargs defends post scorers and Amare assumes reboudning & shotblocking (I'm under the impression he is better at both than Bosh).
On the current Raps, we don't have a single player that plays in the paint.
Bosh = midrange face up iso
Bargs = threes & screens
ONeal = midrange fadeaway
I don't know, I'm not swearing by the trade, I just don't see any way we trade Bosh away and upgrade the team. And rebuilding to be a contender once Boston's window has closed doesn't appeal to me as a fan, nor as a competitor since NY might be a superheavyweight come '10.
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
Why on earth would a kid from Texas want to sign a long term deal in TO when he could sign in Dallas, Houston, Miami, Los Angeles, New York etc.
Also, Bosh IMO has regressed this year, he isnt an elite player who can win you a game late, so might was well trade him for picks.
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Why on earth would a kid from Texas want to sign a long term deal in TO when he could sign in Dallas, Houston, Miami, Los Angeles, New York etc.
He already signed a contract extension.
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Originally Posted by mykalberta
Also, Bosh IMO has regressed this year, he isnt an elite player who can win you a game late, so might was well trade him for picks.
I think that's more of a byproduct of the Raps not being good enough to win ANY games. Ray Allen "wins" the Celtics a lot of close games with buzzer beaters, but if he played for the Knicks or the Kings he wouldn't be an impact player at all.
What about O'Neal/Moon/Solomon for Okafor/Felton/Diop?
Maybe Indy would trade us back Ford & Rasho.
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
I believe Bosh for Amare is not a sideways move at all. That it's actually a huge step DOWN is probably more accurate.
What about something like Bosh to Sacramento for Kevin Martin and Brad Miller? I have no idea what these guys' contract situations are like though so it's not a very well thought out proposal.
Gozer - I think you're HIGHLY overvaluing O'Neal/Moon or undervaluing Okafor/Felton in your above proposal.
Okafor is better then Oneal and Felton is better then Moon, no chance those guys go for that, if they did though BC would be genius.
Right now Oneal will not fetch a lot, we'd be lucky if Miami gave up Marion. Even then the bigger issue is Bosh, either way the Raps face a huge dilemma in 1.5 years, I just think if they deal with it now they will be a lot better off vs. waiting a year or so.
What about something like Bosh to Sacramento for Kevin Martin and Brad Miller? I have no idea what these guys' contract situations are like though so it's not a very well thought out proposal.
Bosh + Graham for Miller + Martin fits under the cap but we still wouldn't have a wing player that could stop a nosebleed and still wouldn't have a player that plays in the paint.
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Originally Posted by malcolmk14
I believe Bosh for Amare is not a sideways move at all. That it's actually a huge step DOWN is probably more accurate.
I'm spitballin' over here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmk14
Gozer - I think you're HIGHLY overvaluing O'Neal/Moon or undervaluing Okafor/Felton in your above proposal.
Will Solomon more than makes up for what would otherwise be a very lopsided trade.
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
Okafor is better then Oneal and Felton is better then Moon, no chance those guys go for that, if they did though BC would be genius.
Right now Oneal will not fetch a lot, we'd be lucky if Miami gave up Marion. Even then the bigger issue is Bosh, either way the Raps face a huge dilemma in 1.5 years, I just think if they deal with it now they will be a lot better off vs. waiting a year or so.
The Marion deal has disaster written all over it. They want to include Banks who has a horrible contract giving them two guys Kapono and Banks taking up over 10 million and sitting at the end of the bench. Apparently they want a pick as well along with Moon. For a rental who is old and lately as injury prone as O"Neal. That deal is just hopeless.
You are right that he is overrating O'Neals value. That one will be about contracts, perhaps injury replacement etc. No team is going to give up much for O'Neal. Not until next year when his expiring will be very attractive.
