Obama's Abortion Stance

[Displaced Flames fan]

Weiser, where did you see/hear that 80% of US abortions are for married women? That's a very interesting number. I would've thought it to be much less.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Weiser, where did you see/hear that 80% of US abortions are for married women? That's a very interesting number. I would've thought it to be much less.

I learned it in a History of Sexuality class I took at University of Idaho from Professor Sean Quinlan. I know, just because he's a professor doesn't mean jack but it was part of the subject matter of the course. He wasn't giving us his view of abortion or anything.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

I learned it in a History of Sexuality class I took at University of Idaho from Professor Sean Quinlan. I know, just because he's a professor doesn't mean jack but it was part of the subject matter of the course. He wasn't giving us his view of abortion or anything.

Never mind. I was going to talk about statistics I found on the internet in comparison but they are all from obviously biased sites.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

I learned it in a History of Sexuality class I took at University of Idaho from Professor Sean Quinlan. I know, just because he's a professor doesn't mean jack but it was part of the subject matter of the course. He wasn't giving us his view of abortion or anything.

Here's what's interesting to me about it. I think if that ratio is real, that the number of abortions being performed is down a lot further than I thought.

I don't know the raw statistics of that.

I would call that ratio another good sign.

[Weiser Wonder]

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_in...bortion.html#3

Here is a seemingly unbiased site. 2/3rds are from never married women and 60% already have one child. I have no idea where the 80% came from. . .commonwealth marriage maybe? I'll have to ask him.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_in...bortion.html#3

Here is a seemingly unbiased site. 2/3rds are from never married women and 60% already have one child. I have no idea where the 80% came from. . .commonwealth marriage maybe? I'll have to ask him.

Wow. The numbers in the facts section at the beginning seem very, very high.

22% of all pregnancies end in abortion? I don't buy it.

Still, the numbers per 1000 has been decreasing pretty steadily over the last 24 years, and that's encouraging.

I suppose I could do the math to see if the numbers jive throughout their statistics but I really, really don't want to.

[Calgaryborn]

I marvel at the extent people have gone to to excuse Obama on this thread. Someone even went so far as to suggest he voted against the bill protecting newly born infants because he wanted more dialogue. Obama's explanation of course was that he seen some danger to the rights of a woman to abort at will. Well if that was true then his concern for these new-born babies should have caused him to amend the legislation or propose new legislation that would protect the children and what he perceived as a woman's right. Even buying Obama's own spin on this history he showed a callous disregard to these vulnerable newborns. Obama's spin doesn't line up with the documents though. The bill that he and others squashed did protect current abortion rights and a near identical one was passed unanimously at the federal level:

http://www.nrlc.org/ObamaBAIPA/2003A...dFedBAIPA.html

The only questions that remains is why was he opposed to protecting these children?

and Should this be a deal breaker?

I mean do the positives of an Obama Presidency outweigh the negative of his disregard for the newly born? Obviously your canidate found more positives in maintaining zero protection for the newly born than in offering them some aid and comfort. Are you operating on that same moral plain?

[Azure]

Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/200...his-pay-grade/

Bad answer. Very bad answer.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I marvel at the extent people have gone to to excuse Obama on this thread ...

I mean do the positives of an Obama Presidency outweigh the negative of his disregard for the newly born? Obviously your canidate found more positives in maintaining zero protection for the newly born than in offering them some aid and comfort. Are you operating on that same moral plain?

First of all, I have to say, I personally don't think it's cool that you decided to throw this type of grenade at the CP community with your OP and then disappear for 48 hours. Sure, people have lives, but when you are going to post something so blatantly an attempt to inflame people, you need to be around to defend it, in my opinion. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Second of all, if you believe that the benefits of an Obama Presidency DO outweigh the negatives, does that make you the same evil person he SO OBVIOUSLY is? What if I believe McCain is no less a warmonger than Bush is and he'll end up killing more people than Obama's Presidency might through his beliefs on abortion? Maybe I should be able to point my finger with such righteous indignation towards you? How many people will a McCain Presidency kill around the world?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/200...his-pay-grade/

Bad answer. Very bad answer.

Why?

I think it's a very honest answer.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Why?

I think it's a very honest answer.

Why isn't abortion murder? And when you've answered that question, tell me again why Obama couldn't give a straight answer to the question he was asked instead of evading it.

If you're a Presidential candidate, there is no such thing as 'above your pay grade.' People ask you questions and expect 'real' answers. Not evasive ones.

Also, Obama is either pro-choice, or he is pro-life. By being pro-choice he obviously believes that a fetus doesn't become 'human' during pregnancy, but at birth, and by being pro-life he would believe that a fetus is human at conception.

According to Obama, he is pro-choice, so his answer should be obvious. Why on earth would he not answer it that way? Outside of not wanting to go against the religious vote, and playing the fence to appeal to both sides?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why isn't abortion murder? And when you've answered that question, tell me again why Obama couldn't give a straight answer to the question he was asked instead of evading it.

If you're a Presidential candidate, there is no such thing as 'above your pay grade.' People ask you questions and expect 'real' answers. Not evasive ones.

I disagree completely.

Answering a question like that specifically can get you in a lot of trouble. He's not stupid enough to say life begins at birth (I will never understand how anyone can come to this conclusion) and to say it begins at conception....how the hell does he know that?

I love the answer. The President of the United States doesn't need to know the answer to that question.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I disagree completely.

Answering a question like that specifically can get you in a lot of trouble. He's not stupid enough to say life begins at birth (I will never understand how anyone can come to this conclusion) and to say it begins at conception....how the hell does he know that?

I love the answer. The President of the United States doesn't need to know the answer to that question.

Oh, so he DOES know the answer(obviously considering his stance)....but doesn't want to answer it because it'll get him in trouble.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, so he DOES know the answer(obviously considering his stance)....but doesn't want to answer it because it'll get him in trouble.

That's not what I said.

Giving an answer simply to give in to your concerns (evading) can be dangerous. You make something up that you don't believe or know to be true for sure.

He answered honestly.

I like honesty.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

That's not what I said.

Giving an answer simply to give in to your concerns (evading) can be dangerous. You make something up that you don't believe or know to be true for sure.

He answered honestly.

I like honesty.

Has nothing to do with that. You realize that US Senators usually have to choose whether or not they'll vote 'pro-life'....or 'pro-choice.' I sure as heck hope they have a reason why they vote either way.

If its above their pay-grade, they shouldn't put themselves into that position.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

Also, Obama is either pro-choice, or he is pro-life. By being pro-choice he obviously believes that a fetus doesn't become 'human' during pregnancy, but at birth, and by being pro-life he would believe that a fetus is human at conception.

Wow. That is one absolutely horrible logical fallacy. I am pro-choice. I also don't believe that a fetus becomes "human" at birth. Which is why I am fine with day after pills and am against late term abortions.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Has nothing to do with that. You realize that US Senators usually have to choose whether or not they'll vote 'pro-life'....or 'pro-choice.' I sure as heck hope they have a reason why they vote either way.

If its above their pay-grade, they shouldn't put themselves into that position.

You're making abortion a black and white issue with that statement. It isn't.

I have clearly stated that I believe life begins way before birth, yet I support abortion laws that overlap that span.

It's not that simple Azure.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Wow. That is one absolutely horrible logical fallacy. I am pro-choice. I also don't believe that a fetus becomes "human" at birth. Which is why I am fine with day after pills and am against late term abortions.

Late-term abortions are a completely different issue. Unless they mother is at risk, most people would also be against it. And that is probably why partial birth abortion happens very rarely.

Obama has repeatedly said that he doesn't know whether or not life begins at conception. So in essence, he doesn't know whether or not he is 'aborting' a human life or not.

So why is he so openly pro-choice?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You're making abortion a black and white issue with that statement. It isn't.

I have clearly stated that I believe life begins way before birth, yet I support abortion laws that overlap that span.

It's not that simple Azure.

Abortion laws that protect the mother when her life is in danger I would hope.

I'm know its not black and white. Its very debatable where exactly human life begins.

[Azure]

And reading through the Google results from a "Obama abortion' search, apparently I'm not the only one a bit confused on what exactly Obama is 'supporting.'

You even have 'strong' pro-choice groups that are accusing Obama of wanting to have the best of both worlds. I'm thinking that comes from the 'present' votes, instead of 'yes' or 'no.'

I really don't want to jump on him for that, because everything I'm reading points to the fact that Obama voted 'present' as part of a bigger plan.