I've lost all sympathy for street people

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think that is what so many people here don't like.

If a homeless person were truly there because of conditions they can't control, and they need food to survive, shouldn't they LOVE you for providing them with something to eat?

Don't get me wrong...lots will appreciate it....but it seems like there are more who want money and nothing else. Which obviously shows to me that they need money to support whatever habit they have.

This is exactly what I believe. You give them things that's worth much more than some random change (like a meal, clothing, etc.) and they just don't care, and even get mad at you. DESS is offering them JOBS, ways to get OUT of homelessness, and there is no appreciation there either.

However, most people in this thread believe anecdotal evidence is NOT enough. You also generalize that people that don't appreciate your goods but instead want money have a habit. Prepare to get swamped by some people.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by flameswin

But you are the one who made a blanket statement about homeless people, basically saying that they are all lazy bums because you aparantly deal with them at work.

You're making blanket statements as well. Except that you're exonerating every panhandler because they "might" be mentally ill.

Panhandlers can kiss my ass. You can go ahead and love the crap out of them, but as far as I'm concerned, they can either get a job or continue eating at the shelter. Especially these punk goth kids that think it's cool to panhandle.

[ResAlien]

Shrug. As noted in Modern Drunkard one thing a drunkard must do before dying is give a hobo 20 bucks and make him promise to spend it on booze. That makes you feel good. Other than that, just dont ask me for smokes and feel free to sleep in your own waste.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think losing sympathy is a really wrong term for this. I think deep down you always feel sympthy for someone in a bad spot.

I think the proper term is jaded.

Not to nit-pick, but you're on the right track: I think the proper term would be lack of empathy.

I don't see how, no matter what you think about the homeless and the situation they find themselves in (or the reasons why they continue to be in the situation) anyone could advocate actually being ugly to them. You'd have to think, that either way, the situation would suck.

I mean, it'd be one thing to be homeless in a place like LA that is much more temperate, but I can't see many people choosing to be without a roof above their head in Calgary during the winter.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I mean, it'd be one thing to be homeless in a place like LA that is much more temperate, but I can't see many people choosing to be without a roof above their head in Calgary during the winter.

Well, don't forget the grasshopper/ant analogy here. For the most part, I agree with you, but sometimes people have to take responsibility for themselves. And there are quite a few people roaming the streets that are there because they can't be bothered to keep proper employment.

Example: My mom has a cleaning company. The labour shortage has "forced" her to hire out of the drop in center. Alot of the poeple she's hired will show up day in and day out. Quite a few others are simply dont show up the day after a large payday (they get paid daily). It is pretty easy to figure out who the people are that get their cash and go blow it on booze or drugs. Crap, I'd elaborate but I'm sure you get my point.

[Antithesis]

Oh, I agree with you completely, I'm all about taking responsibility for yourself. I guess what I was trying to say in a roundabout way was that being homeless in LA is probably one thing: it's temperate there, you don't deal with temperature extremes, while I'd assume being homeless here in January is pretty terrible ... so why make the situation worse? There's no reason to be ugly to people ... probably has more to do with someone wanting to make themselves feel better about their life by belittling someone else.

[Gugstanley]

I always ask them if they want to wrestle for food. The winner gets a number ten can of corn. That way we both get some exercise and the winner can eat healthy.

Nobody ever takes me up on it but is sure is hard always carrying around this big can of corn

[Julio]

Interesting thread, sad that it is a recurring theme here.

I think that I have similar feelings to many here. The normal sympathy that you have felt for disadvantaged people has been eroded over the past few years. This erosion has only been aided by the unmistakable fact that a highly visible percentage of the people that are homeless are of the 'give me a $5, not food because I want booze' or the 'walk up and down the same street for 4 hours bumming change, but doesn't want to work for 'the man'' variety.

I don't think that anybody speaking in this thread would say that all homeless people are bad. I know that I have made a distinction in my mind between 'homeless people' and 'street people'. Homeless people are folks that don't have a permanent place to live. Many of them work, many of them are trying to better themselves. Those are the people that Barb Higgins wrote about, and there are a few people that I manage that are right now homeless.

Street people, OTOH, are the people who panhandle, who are operating outside of society, who are trying to 'work the system' or who are not wanting/able to function in society. Some of those people have a genuine debilitating mental illness and deserve our help. But many are like the guy who worked for my company for a week, then quit because we have a policy of doing direct deposit instead of issuing cheques. He didn't want to pay out child support.
Bottom line, I have no problem helping the people who want a hand up. But those who just want a handout of exactly what they want when they want it? Not from me.

[maverickeastwood]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

I remember a few years back one guy walked up to me and explained he was "from Toronto" and was trying to raise $$$ to fly his pregnant girlfriend home so she could be with family for when she had her baby...meanwhile she's about 20 feet away with her back turned to us, puffin on a cigarette. Either a) shes not pregnant, or b) shes a classy lass.

Anyways, I ran into the same guy about a week later, and this time he was "from Montreal" but with the same story...

Unlike this guy from outta town *snicker*, I had one approach me and he said
"You got 5 bux, I just wanna get a bottle and get drunk"

"At least your honest"...meh, I gave him the 5 bux. One gets tired of being lied to, a little honesty went a long way that day. Hasn't happened like that again, it's always the same ol "I got hurt" or "I got AIDS" (no kidding, this kid, early 20's, was accosting everyone that day, total loser) or like the story above. Although, it's amusing seeing a hooker get pissed off at someone for invading their "corner", LMAO.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by HOOT

When they ask for change I tell them to "get a job, that is a change" and been saying that since I was about 15 years old. Why should I work for my money and then give people hand outs? But they continue to do it, because they are ALL LOSERS!!!.

Just wondering, have you ever got the response "OH, thats what I'm missing: a job! Thanks for the heads up, totally didn't think of that!"

Sorry, I always just find it amusing when I hear someone yell "get a job" - what kind of response do they think they'll get? Are they getting advice?

Personally, I'm with alot of people here - I don't support mediocrity.

[Jayems]

Does the name Cymbalisty ring a bell to anyone here?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by kdoir345

Youre a human being, you should have the desire to succeed and if you dont, then I dont feel for you.

I'm with you there. I can feel for 3rd world countries and such, but there are way too many Albertans that can work, but don't. If if you are simply too lazy to work, is it really our job ("our" being those that work) to work harder so they can sick around and waste a life? If you don't plan on accomplishing anything in life, then thats their problem. An unproductive society is what held the Russians back, wasn't it?

For all the "comes from a tough home" and such, my girlfriend comes from a family with a abusive father and a deathly ill mother who divorced when she was 4, unwanted by both. By grade 10, she moved out on her own when both her parents decided they wanted to wipe the slate clean, and start whole new families abandoning their old one (ie. girlfriend). She worked 3 jobs to support her way through high school, and worked through university to keep herself in university and just finished her engineering degree (21 years old). She started her masters degree a couple a couple weeks ago.

My grandfather graduated from high school with high enough marks for a full scholarship to university, but forgo the
opportunity to sell food on the street to help support his family. However, he read as many books as he could, from business to pharmacy and the day he retired, retired with over $5M canadian in assets from owning multiple pharmacies. My uncle (other side of the family) came over to North America broke, i.e. no money to afford rent, and lived in a a church basement. He had to be up every morning at 5:00 (when the church opened for something) and really didn't have anywhere to store his stuff, so he carried around most of his possessions. He eventually completed his chemical engineering degree, and is living a pretty upper class life right now.

A friend of mine in university, abuse alcoholic father et al, lived on his own since he was 15 with no family support. For 3 years, he worked at the Airport but didn't have enough money for rent (he payed for university) so he slept at the airport, akin The Terminal. In his first 2 years, he would have 1 meal a day, sometimes only 1 meal every 2 days. He has been in the military, and has been shot in the leg before, and is also mentally disabled. He finishes his mechanical engineering degree this year.

I was in Cambodia a couple weeks ago, a country that suffered through a civil revolution and lost their entire educated population when the United States prevented the UN from helping Cambodia. People in Cambodia had to find a way to survive. One of the waiters at my table was a ~10-14 years old during the revolution and knew he had to get an education to survive, but could not afford education. So, to learn English, he biked 16km to Angkor a couple times a week to try and start conversations with tourists to learn English. After doing this a couple days every week for about 10 years, he was able to get himself into a school to learn to be a waiter. He's worked there about 3 years, and hopes with another 2 years of working, he will have enough to leave Cambodia and go to a university.

My tourguide, similar story. His parents were victims of Pol Pot's genocide, and fled to (Thailand, I believe) and did the exact same thing... tried to start conversations with tourists to learn English. His education was to wake up every day, and go talk to tourists to learn English. This eventually led him to the career he has (tour guide).

When I was in Hong Kong - 10x's the population, far less homeless people living on charity. If you couldn't get employed for a job, you found another way to get a job. Sell some newspapers on a corner of a busy road, for example.

(Me, I'll admit, I've had it pretty easy. Grew up a middle class family. Good parents. Pretty standard sailing through life thus far.)

Sorry, but I don't see myself as ignorant at all when I don't feel sympathy for homeless people who are looking for a free ride, but have the capacity to work. After seeing many other stories of people struggling in far worse situations (ie. civil revolution, girlfriend) I don't buy the "my dad was an alcoholic" excuse.

[WesternCanadaKing]

There's this red-bearded homeless guy who comes into the Second Cup I work at a lot, he's always really respectful and never asks for money. He just wants to know if we're going to leave the expired food outside when we close, so we always leave it for him. The poor guy just can't seem to catch a break, he was cleaning bathrooms at the Blind Monk for a while but then that place closed and I'm not really sure what he does now. He usually hangs outside of the Mission Safeway and is always really nice.

I'm sure there are many others like him, people who never really got a shot at life and just can't get on their feet.

Then again, we get a lot of hilarious crack addicts coming in. But they just make the time go by a little faster.

[burn_this_city]

I saw some dudes panhandling in vegas once by the excalibur, one had a sign that said.. "Why lie..? I need some weed"

[Jayems]

I just can't believe how hard it would be to go from living on the streets to getting enough money to actually put down a damage deposit and first and last months rent, and maintain it.

Well, sure it can be done, but it can't be easy.

A lesson I learnt at the ripe old age of 16:

Never get a bum to boot some beer for you, unless you never want to see that money again... or the beer. Trust me. No matter how desperate you are to find someone to buy it.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Don't know about you guys...but I need the homeless for their bone marrow.

[CaptainCrunch]

I have to put this in because I think its a huge problem.

Last year I was doing HR consulting for a very large placement firm, and we'd get 40 or 50 calls a day from people out east that were looking for work and wanted to come to Alberta. They for the most part had called a lot of different companies and talked to a lot of different HR managers and hiring contacts and the underlying message was "Get out here, there's a labor shortage and people are paying a lot of money"

I agreed with that but I always said this. "If your going to come out here, you really have to have $5000.00 in your pocket". People would get upset at me, but I was honest. Yes Alberta is supposed to be the land of milk and honey, there are lots of jobs, especially in the trades, and salaries are decent.

But the cost of living is extremely high. To get into an apartment your going to need at least $2000 for first months rent and damage deposit, your going to need all of the utilities. food here and gas here is expensive. I pointed to a survey that stated that last year the break even point to live in Calgary was about $34,000. If your not making that its tough to survive here.

I think in a lot of ways, our provinces hype is causing the homeless situation and I'm not saying its unethical, but its a dishonest practice by companies hiring that they don't prepare people for whats going to happen out here, especially the people who aren't on the mid to upper end of the salary scale.

There are lots of stories of people that come here with nothing in the hopes of landing a job and turning their lives around, and they end up in the shelters because they're not prepared for the expense of accepting that job.

If any of you are doing any hiring from out of province sources, its your responsibility to at least brief these people on the expenses because otherwise your probably adding to the problem.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I agreed with that but I always said this. "If your going to come out here, you really have to have $5000.00 in your pocket". People would get upset at me, but I was honest. Yes Alberta is supposed to be the land of milk and honey, there are lots of jobs, especially in the trades, and salaries are decent.

But the cost of living is extremely high. To get into an apartment your going to need at least $2000 for first months rent and damage deposit, your going to need all of the utilities. food here and gas here is expensive. I pointed to a survey that stated that last year the break even point to live in Calgary was about $34,000. If your not making that its tough to survive here.

Not necessarily. Thats what low income housing is for. A guy I play soccer with makes under $30k a year, and has a family with 3 children. Because he was below some sort of threshold, he qualifies for low-income housing, and his rent for a 3-bedroom condo is $800 per month.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Not necessarily. Thats what low income housing is for. A guy I play soccer with makes under $30k a year, and has a family with 3 children. Because he was below some sort of threshold, he qualifies for low-income housing, and his rent for a 3-bedroom condo is $800 per month.

Well he should count himself lucky. There's a HUGE shortage of low income housing in this city. Certainly not enough to go around.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Not necessarily. Thats what low income housing is for. A guy I play soccer with makes under $30k a year, and has a family with 3 children. Because he was below some sort of threshold, he qualifies for low-income housing, and his rent for a 3-bedroom condo is $800 per month.

Lets say that he's under $30,000 per year, which is about $2500 per month. Which after taxes is probably about $2000 per month and he's paying nearly 50% of his salary to housing and has $300 dollars a week to feed and clothe three kids, pay his bills and get to work and back.

This goes right towards what I'm saying. He's one maybe two paychecks from being homeless even with low cost housing and Jiri said it before, there's not enough low cost housing around for people making under $35000 per year.

I couldn't live on $300 dollars per week for food, clothes, bills gas costs etc, let alone with kids. Hell one date a week would wipe me out on that income level.