Muslim employee at Canada airport fights dress code

[redforever]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

It is a big issue. The point is that is didn't have to be, and shouldn't have been.

There was really no basis to tell her she couldn't wear the longer skirt aside from a strict adherence to the company dress code. If there was some reason it was a safety concern or a hazard, then I think most people would agree the skirt should be not allowed. But as far as I can tell, the only reason to disallow it was to stick to the rules just for the sake of sticking to the rules.

In my opinion, the dangers posed from such rigid and inflexible thinking are a greater threat to society than making small, compassionate exceptions to the rules.

Well put. I don't think this was any safety issue whatsoever either, it is simply I am the boss, this is company policy, obey the policy in it's most strict form or you are history.

To me, safety issues would be something like women in the armed forces wishing to wear skirts while performing combat duty. That would be a safety issue not only for the woman but for her comrades as well.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by redforever

Apparently she did have an issue but chose the slacks over the skirt because the skirt was more of an issue.

To me it sounds like she found a compromise, asked her supervisor if it was a suitable compromise, he agreed, 7 months after the fact, she was suspended without pay.

I suspect this is an inside thing, some employee ratting on another employee, telling upper management about some problem employee. I mean who in the public would even notice a skirt is 2" longer and even if they did, who would complain about it?

If you have an issue with something, do you wait for FIVE YEARS before telling someone about it? That seems a bit of an excessive wait if she had an issue with the dress code.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

It is a big issue. The point is that is didn't have to be, and shouldn't have been.

There was really no basis to tell her she couldn't wear the longer skirt aside from a strict adherence to the company dress code. If there was some reason it was a safety concern or a hazard, then I think most people would agree the skirt should be not allowed. But as far as I can tell, the only reason to disallow it was to stick to the rules just for the sake of sticking to the rules.

In my opinion, the dangers posed from such rigid and inflexible thinking are a greater threat to society than making small, compassionate exceptions to the rules.

How so? What is wrong with treating everyone equally? Why is that so "dangerous"...

[GreenTeaFrapp]

It sounds to me like over the five years since she started the job, her butt got a whole lot wider and she developed cankles so she decided to use religion as an excuse to modify the dress code to hide her fat butt and chubby calves.

Without her employers side of the story, you can't determine if she had been informally told previously that her modification was unacceptable or if there are valid reasons for the standard length of skirt.

[fredr123]

More info from the Toronto Star: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/277286

Muse's suspension from work happened in stages. On Aug. 11, Garda suspended her one day for wearing the ankle-length skirt.
On Aug. 15, she was suspended for three days. On Aug. 22, the penalty became five days. On Aug. 29, she was sent home indefinitely.
"I am talking for all women who would like to wear a long skirt – practising Christians, Jewish, Muslim, all of them," Muse said.
Taking a stand has already cost her, she said. Out of work nearly three months, she is running up debt on a credit card and borrowing money from her brother.
The federal employment insurance agency has refused to qualify her, she said, because she is not officially unemployed – she can go back to her job if she conforms to regulations she considers to violate her religious rights. The welfare department has similarly denied her application, she said.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by FireFly

If you have an issue with something, do you wait for FIVE YEARS before telling someone about it? That seems a bit of an excessive wait if she had an issue with the dress code.

Some people wait forever and never say anything. If it took 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 months, 5 years, is that even the issue? The issue is "was this woman performing her job at company standards wearing a slightly adjusted uniform that was approved by her supervisor"

[fredr123]

CATSA speaks: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/n...a336a6&k=49338

Yesterday, a representative for CATSA said this is the first time the agency has dealt with a request for more modesty since the uniform for screening officers was unveiled in 2003.
"It's important to stress the importance of the uniform and uniformity. The reason it was rolled out was to have a credible and professional corporate identity," spokeswoman Anna-Karina Tabunar said. "We're treating it not just as an issue of a new skirt, we're treating it as a broader issue, a policy issue, and as such CATSA has to gather all the facts to evaluate the different aspects of the request and the impact it's going to have on CATSA's uniform and uniform policy."
She did say for the first time yesterday that CATSA is prepared to ensure Ms. Muse "will not be financially penalized" as the organization contemplates her request.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

wow nice way to destroy your whole rant..

The bigger issue here, that is already pointed out is where do you draw the line, sure it doesnt seem like a big deal, until she made it a big deal by claiming it somehow voilates her human rights..You give her what she wants, than you are going to have to give everyone else what they wants..The company needs to stick to their policies for much bigger reasons.. the woman who took BC Hydro to the human rights commission because she thought their testing procedures to work as a lineman where discriminating against woman....the sikhs who took the Surrey Schools board to the human rights commisssion because they couldnt wear their kirpans to school..or the soccer official who disqualified a player for wearing a head garment...we cant possibly tailor things for every special interest group that comes along...

The redneck crack was intentional irony, btw. But I do find it hilarious, and sad, that people who have no tolerance for her personal belief system are the same ones who identify themselves so strongly as being "Canadian". She's a Canadian too, ya know, or at the very least a resident of Canada of some official status.

As for the kirpans, that's such a weak arguement. Sikhs who want to carry kirpans in a safe and respectful manner have been doing so for a long time in Canada - they are either welded or riveted in their sheaths. It's compatible with both their religious perspective, as well as that of public perception of safety.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by redforever

Some people wait forever and never say anything. If it took 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 months, 5 years, is that even the issue? The issue is "was this woman performing her job at company standards wearing a slightly adjusted uniform that was approved by her supervisor"

Well no, it wasn't at company standards. Her uniform clearly was not to company standards and that's part of her job. Approved by her supervisor does not mean approved by the company, perhaps the supervisor should have checked with the company first? In addition, she was later told that it wasn't to company standards and that she'd need to conform. I assume, since suspensions were handed out, that she would have received a verbal warning first as is the case with any company with a union's disciplinary process.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

It is a big issue. The point is that is didn't have to be, and shouldn't have been.

There was really no basis to tell her she couldn't wear the longer skirt aside from a strict adherence to the company dress code. If there was some reason it was a safety concern or a hazard, then I think most people would agree the skirt should be not allowed. But as far as I can tell, the only reason to disallow it was to stick to the rules just for the sake of sticking to the rules.

In my opinion, the dangers posed from such rigid and inflexible thinking are a greater threat to society than making small, compassionate exceptions to the rules.

I never said it was a safetly issue.....it is simply another errosion of traditional Canadian values. It has been said a few times already but you can stick your head in the sand if you want.

Again, if you want to see what Canada will be like in 30 years....look at the UK now.

http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/...lturalism.html

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/british_re...its_debits.htm



it's time for Britain to recognize that it is no longer a Christian nation and should embrace multiculturalism, according to a liberal think-tank

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/11558595/


Again, there is nothing wrong with believing in what you want, but the UK is essentially being taken over and estimates have it that by 2050, traditional UK residents will be the minority.

[RougeUnderoos]

This one is moving too fast for me, but I gotta say that I am surprised how much righteous indignation this one woman's slightly altered, drab "Garda" uniform can stir up.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

But I do find it hilarious, and sad, that people who have no tolerance for her personal belief system are the same ones who identify themselves so strongly as being "Canadian". She's a Canadian too, ya know, or at the very least a resident of Canada of some official status.

It goes both ways champs..does she have tolerance of the policies of the company she works for? tolerance is a 2 way street...

they are either welded or riveted in their sheaths. It's compatible with both their religious perspective, as well as that of public perception of safety.

O'rly?

On November 19, 2001, Gurbaj Singh accidentally dropped the kirpan he was wearing under his clothes in the yard of the school he was attending, École Sainte‑Catherine‑Labouré. On December 21, 2001, the school board, the Commission scolaire Marguerite‑Bourgeoys (“CSMB”), through its legal counsel, sent Gurbaj Singh’s parents a letter in which, as a [translation] “reasonable accommodation”, it authorized their son to wear his kirpan to school provided that he complied with certain conditions to ensure that it was sealed inside his clothing. Gurbaj Singh and his parents agreed to this arrangement.

http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/200.../2006scc6.html

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Again, there is nothing wrong with believing in what you want, but the UK is essentially being taken over and estimates have it that by 2050, traditional UK residents will be the minority.

Whaddya mean "traditional UK residents"? White people?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I never said it was a safetly issue.....it is simply another errosion of traditional Canadian values.

An erosion of traditional canadian values? Obviously we attended different schools. I was taught that Canada was a "cultural mosaic" as opposed to america's "melting pot".

So would you care to tell me just exactly what "canadian values" are? I need to know. I am Canadian.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Whaddya mean "traditional UK residents"? White people?

The majority of traditional UK residents are white yes but many are also black. Thousands were brought to the UK as slaves way back. But way to make this a "white/black" issue.

This is about the complete transition of the British Identity.

I talked to many people that move to Canada from the UK and they feel like there entire country has been taken away from them. Forced to abided by the customs of new immigrants and now feeling like they cannot practice there own customs.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by 4X4

An erosion of traditional canadian values? Obviously we attended different schools. I was taught that Canada was a "cultural mosaic" as opposed to america's "melting pot".

So would you care to tell me just exactly what "canadian values" are? I need to know. I am Canadian.

I can't help you if you dont know already.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I can't help you if you dont know already.

Oh please. Cop out.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The majority of traditional UK residents are white yes but many are also black. Thousands were brought to the UK as slaves way back. But way to make this a "white/black" issue.

I talked to many people that move to Canada from the UK and they feel like there entire country has been taken away from them. Forced to abided by the customs of new immigrants and now feeling like they cannot practice there own customs.

Can you name me one custom that you would like to practice but are no longer able to? Barring that, do you see a custom that you like to practice being threatened or taken away from you?

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I can't help you if you dont know already.

Brutal.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I can't help you if you dont know already.

White.

Christian.

Conservative.

non?