Pats are a bunch of cheaters...

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Again please post a link of Mangini whining. The only thing he has said is that its a league matter no comment. Where did he whine?

I think there is a common belief that Mangini knew that Belichick videotaped teams and reported him... I dont know if that's confirmed, but that is the suspicion.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I think there is a common belief that Mangini knew that Belichick videotaped teams and reported him... I dont know if that's confirmed, but that is the suspicion.

The entire league knew it. The same guy who got caught this time got caught in GB last year, but with no physical evidence. The Pats had been reported 4 prior times according to the competition committee. I think that the NFL set up a sting on them to get evidence.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by flambers

Sure, but the big difference is in the NFL is not legal. New England did not listen to the league direction and they received a heavy fine. Not to mention the league is continuing the investigation.

So far they are the only ones caught...

oh, I totally agree with their punishment, they should have been fined and were cheating. My point is, i think they are being villified unfairly, everyone does it, they got caught, and they were punished (and rightfully so) for it. This is NOT like steroids.

[Clever_Iggy]

What about the widespread use of illegal sticks in the NHL. Should the league start cracking down on this? Everyone does it. Is it cheating?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

What about the widespread use of illegal sticks in the NHL. Should the league start cracking down on this? Everyone does it. Is it cheating?

Do you think it will cost a team a first round pick if they don't? What if the team could of selected the next Superstar player with that pick?

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by flambers

Do you think it will cost a team a first round pick if they don't? What if the team could of selected the next Superstar player with that pick?

I dont think the Patriots should have lost a first round pick (like it really matters). I agree with the fine and if Belichick would have been suspended, that I could justify.

Im saying that cheating is widespread in a lot of sports... cracking down on illegal hockey sticks is the equivilent.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I dont think the Patriots should have lost a first round pick (like it really matters). I agree with the fine and if Belichick would have been suspended, that I could justify.

Im saying that cheating is widespread in a lot of sports... cracking down on illegal hockey sticks is the equivilent.

Obviously the league commissioners would disagree,

Illegal stick - 2 minute minor

VS

Illegally video taping a team - first round pick

Keep in mind this is the first offense, the first round picks are very important to any NFL team.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by flambers

Obviously the league commissioners would disagree,

Illegal stick - 2 minute minor

VS

Illegally video taping a team - first round pick

Keep in mind this is the first offense, the first round picks are very important to any NFL team.

Goddell, although having done a good job to this point, is getting a little to close to tyrannical for me. He's a big fan of handing out harsh punishments the first time to try and set a precedent. I dont know if it will work.

I think something needed to be done, but that punishment was incredibly harsh... But Belichick gets the last laugh. The Patriots have the 49ers pick, which will be a better pick, and they can take all that money they would have spent on an unproven college player drafted 28-32 overall, and reinvest it in a free agent or resigning a key player. Plus, there are rumors that Jason Taylor is available for a 1st rounder... not bad to draft the 2006 defensive player of the year...

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by flambers

Obviously the league commissioners would disagree,

Illegal stick - 2 minute minor

VS

Illegally video taping a team - first round pick

Keep in mind this is the first offense, the first round picks are very important to any NFL team.

But it isn't a first offense. It is the first time solid proof has come out and penalties issued.

Rumours have been floating around, the league made a point to warn teams against doing this before the season began, and the Pats are caught, with evidence, week #1.

Does everyone try to steal signs? Absolutely. They watch the sidelines and try to see if the other team tips their hand. But by videotaping it, which is explicitly disallowed, the Pats were cheating and punished. You can argue the severity of the penalty, but I don't think you can argue that there was a penalty.

I was surprised do hear Don Shula say he believed this has tainted the Pat Superbowl wins. I've lost some respect for the Pats but I don't know that this has tainted their wins.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Goddell, although having done a good job to this point, is getting a little to close to tyrannical for me. He's a big fan of handing out harsh punishments the first time to try and set a precedent. I dont know if it will work.

I think something needed to be done, but that punishment was incredibly harsh... But Belichick gets the last laugh. The Patriots have the 49ers pick, which will be a better pick, and they can take all that money they would have spent on an unproven college player drafted 28-32 overall, and reinvest it in a free agent or resigning a key player. Plus, there are rumors that Jason Taylor is available for a 1st rounder... not bad to draft the 2006 defensive player of the year...

I've heard pretty much the opposite - most polls and interviews I've heard thought Goodell wasn't tough enough and a suspension was warranted.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I've heard pretty much the opposite - most polls and interviews I've heard thought Goodell wasn't tough enough and a suspension was warranted.

Ive seen those polls too - I think it's fueled more by the fact that people didnt like Belichick to begin with and/or dont like the Patriots because theyve been so dominant, rather than people actually supporting the punishment.

If the Browns/Vikings/Raiders, etc... had been caught videotaping team signals, I think the response would have been different.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I misread the above article thought it said they got 2 penalties for 10 yards for doing their little shpiel. I missed the game as I was at Austin City Limits Fest. Btw I don't think their should be an asterik by their SB's. I just think what they did was a lot worse than the Jets yelling on the d line.

Yes I can agree they did do something worse and that is why when you yell out illegal snap counts you get 10 yards not a first round pick gone. I am just glad they caught this in the first week as I could just imagine the out cry if this was week 12.

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

What about the widespread use of illegal sticks in the NHL. Should the league start cracking down on this? Everyone does it. Is it cheating?

Yes they should and yes it is cheating. If it against the rules it is cheating doens't matter how big or small the offence is. Cheating is cheating it may be different "levels" of cheating that is why they are dealt with differently.

Originally Posted by flambers

Obviously the league commissioners would disagree,

Illegal stick - 2 minute minor

VS

Illegally video taping a team - first round pick

Keep in mind this is the first offense, the first round picks are very important to any NFL team.

Well one commissioner is a pansy and the other one is a hard-a$$ so that would be a big difference there. I would love them to start suspending guys for using illegal sticks. Why make the rule if you are never going to enforce it.

They may be important but I don't think they are as important to NE as most if not all teams in the NFL. They have amazing ownership, front office, coaching and players. They will get through this with a few more Superbowl wins before Brady retires.

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I've heard pretty much the opposite - most polls and interviews I've heard thought Goodell wasn't tough enough and a suspension was warranted.

I have heard the same. I don't think Belichick is too worried about the cash and NE isn't too worried about the pick. Personally I would have liked to see him suspended for a game or two, I think that would have set a better example.

[Jason14h]

If the Browns/Vikings/Raiders, etc... had been caught videotaping team signals, I think the response would have been different

The league would have probably awarded them another 1st rounder, cause think how bad the Raiders would be without cheating!

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The league would have probably awarded them another 1st rounder, cause think how bad the Raiders would be without cheating!

And Im a Raiders fan...

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Goddell, although having done a good job to this point, is getting a little to close to tyrannical for me. He's a big fan of handing out harsh punishments the first time to try and set a precedent. I dont know if it will work.

I think something needed to be done, but that punishment was incredibly harsh... But Belichick gets the last laugh. The Patriots have the 49ers pick, which will be a better pick, and they can take all that money they would have spent on an unproven college player drafted 28-32 overall, and reinvest it in a free agent or resigning a key player. Plus, there are rumors that Jason Taylor is available for a 1st rounder... not bad to draft the 2006 defensive player of the year...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...8&sportCat=nfl

I agree with almost everything in this article. And explains why the commish has been so serious about straightening out his league.

[habernac]

I laughed my ass off reading that article. Comparing him to Nixon?

Michael Vick tried to deny and stonewall, but at the last owned up and admitted what he did. That's dignity.

Holy overreaction Batman....

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by habernac

I laughed my ass off reading that article. Comparing him to Nixon?

Michael Vick tried to deny and stonewall, but at the last owned up and admitted what he did. That's dignity.

Holy overreaction Batman....

The sky is falling! It's crap reading like this that gets everyone into a state of panic.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

The sky is falling! It's crap reading like this that gets everyone into a state of panic.

And exactly how is the NBA doing now vs 15 years ago?

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

And exactly how is the NBA doing now vs 15 years ago?

Yawn. Whatever. The punishment has been handed down - if there is more evidence, it'll be dealt with. But doomsday articles like this from writers desperate to make a name for themselves just make things worse.

Should the NFL ignore it like MLB ignored steroids? No. Like the NBA ignored gambling. No. But constant coverage and always looking up to the sky to see it fall doesnt do the league any good.

Thank goodness for OJ... give vultures something else to circle for awhile.

[burn_baby_burn]

In Poker you observe your opponent to see if they give any indication of what sort of hand they might have. If your observant enough and you figure out your opponents "tell" or "sign", you have an edge. But if you use a camera or mirrors to actually see what your opponents cards are. You are a cheater. In the old west, they used to shoot cheaters.