Blu-ray Vs. HD DVD not as close as expected... (Official- HD-DVD Dead)

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by ernie

Haven't read the article yet but really that reasoning just goes to the attach rates of the stand alone players which HD-DVD is winning hands down. The HD movie buying public at this point seems to favour the HD-DVD lineup. Those people with a PS3 gaming console collecting dust because there are too few games are buying some Blu-ray movies to pass the time. ONce (if?) the games start coming to the PS3 those people stop buying movies and start buying games.

I just recall when the PS2 first came out, it was really expensive and people justified the cost becaue it could be their game system and a DVD player. You can still see DVD remotes for the PS2 for sale. I see a similar trend occuring here. People justifying the cost because it also has a Blu-ray player.

The article linked, as well as a few others I've read, have also touched on the point that the cost to produce a blu-ray disk is much higher than the cost to produce HD-DVD (which can be created on retro-fitted existing equipment).

And even thoug people are touting that Blockbuster is only renting Blu-ray, that isn't entirely true.

Blockbuster, the world’s largest video-rental chain, announced that, in future, it would stock only Blu-ray discs in its 1,450 local branches. After all, two out of three customers had been renting Blu-ray titles. Henceforth, HD DVD versions would be available only at Blockbuster’s 250 main stores and through its online service.

So I believe the war is far from over.

I've always thought the studios deciding what format they release their movies in would be the deciding factor, but even that appears to be in flux, with studios appearing to be waiting to see which format the public embraces.

The Christmas sales season may be very interesting.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I wonder about the Blockbuster stance, given the Paramount/Dreamworks announcement. Blockbuster won't rent Shrek 3 in HD at most of its stores?

[Draug]

Here is a GREAT article on the subject. Really makes the point that NOTHING happening so far for these formats is significant. Because they are totally in their infancy, anything can and still will happen.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...Bombshell_/921

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Which is exactly why most PVRs will not allow you to save content to another computer.

The published reasons are that they don't want to allow piracy, and while I'm sure that is a consideration, I believe the real reason is they don't want to harm the futue DVD sales. Which is a valid reason from a business point of view, but not one which they can enforce with the anti-circumvention provisions in the DMCA (in the US).

The bottleneck in recording HD signals from your Set Top Box or Satellite reciever to your computer is the tuner card which doesn't carry a Digital input that is HDCP. They can be recorded but only in analogue, unless you record from OTA with an ATSC tuner. Since there are no OTA TV stations in most of Canada, most of us are out of luck. I'm sure the technology is there to have an HDCP compliant DVI or HDMI input on these cards, but the powers that be won't allow it.

I understand HD Shaw recievers can record HD to a computer via firewire though.

[MacDougalbry]

I suggest that anyone who is considering buying either format get more familiar with HDCP (High Definition Content Protection.) With this copy protection scheme, you cannot play HD-DVD or Blu Ray discs on your HD TV or projector unless it has both HDMI and HDCP. If you attempt to connect using the component video out, you will get a downconverted regular DVD signal. Not sure how many discs are currently being sold with HDCP on them. Think about what this means, though... now you've got to buy a new TV/projector and a new home theatre receiver as well. It'll take a looooooooooong time for either format to catch on with this sort of adoption costs.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by MacDougalbry

I suggest that anyone who is considering buying either format get more familiar with HDCP (High Definition Content Protection.) With this copy protection scheme, you cannot play HD-DVD or Blu Ray discs on your HD TV or projector unless it has both HDMI and HDCP. If you attempt to connect using the component video out, you will get a downconverted regular DVD signal. Not sure how many discs are currently being sold with HDCP on them. Think about what this means, though... now you've got to buy a new TV/projector and a new home theatre receiver as well. It'll take a looooooooooong time for either format to catch on with this sort of adoption costs.

That's not true, as long as ICT is not enabled you can still see HD through the other connectors.

Once ICT is enabled, you will be correct.

And Vulcan, currently the analog capture cards will grab the signal to your hard drive. It takes pretty good precessing power, but it is being done (lots of people on the Myth TV mailing list are doing it). There are some capture card that will accept the digital signals, but only if the signals are not encrypted (which are very few).

[nfotiu]

Another possible momentum builder for HD-DVD with a $99 Toshiba player at wal-mart (US).
http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?section=secret

[ken0042]

Wow. If that DVD player is still on sale when I go down to the States in a few weeks, I know what I'm bringing on the plane for carry-on.

[Dr. Evil]

Fox and Disney are BluRay exclusive. Now Warner is hinting they will do the same. $99 players aren't going to turn the tide for HD. When the best selling HD-DVD disc is being put down by that film's director and he wants it released on BluRay, Paramount is only shooting themselves in the foot.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Dr. Evil

Fox and Disney are BluRay exclusive. Now Warner is hinting they will do the same. $99 players aren't going to turn the tide for HD. When the best selling HD-DVD disc is being put down by that film's director and he wants it released on BluRay, Paramount is only shooting themselves in the foot.

both formats remain insignificant and will continue to do so for quite some time. The sales of the best selling Blu-ray and HD-DVD disc is dwarfed by even the worst movie on regular DVD.

Movie sales are about a 60:40 split right now for Blu-ray...certainly not numbers you win a format war with. And there are on going rumblings that Fox and Disney may soon support HD-DVD as well.

The end result is that at this time it is very much a niche market and if it remains a niche market for an extended period of time, there is a good chance manufacturers are going to choose the technology that fits the current factory footprints and can be retrofit into current production technology. That is the huge feather in HD-DVDs cap that may allow them to win the war.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by Dr. Evil

Fox and Disney are BluRay exclusive. Now Warner is hinting they will do the same. $99 players aren't going to turn the tide for HD. When the best selling HD-DVD disc is being put down by that film's director and he wants it released on BluRay, Paramount is only shooting themselves in the foot.

In addition to what Ernie said, you have to admit a $99.00 player certainly doesn't hurt HD-DVD stance in the game. e.g. just becuase you have a PS3 doesn't mean you pretty much have to support Blu-ray, for 99 bones you can go with HD-DVD if it tickles your fancy.

I personally am still not moving formats until I can't get anything on DVD anymore. Blu-ray and HD are still irrelavant and unecesary at this time in my mind.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Dr. Evil

Fox and Disney are BluRay exclusive. Now Warner is hinting they will do the same. $99 players aren't going to turn the tide for HD. When the best selling HD-DVD disc is being put down by that film's director and he wants it released on BluRay, Paramount is only shooting themselves in the foot.

Funny, Warner has been quoted as saying that they want to see if sub-$200 players at wal-mart spur software sales over the holidays before picking a side.

They've also said that a format must extend beyond video game platforms to be viable. Blu-ray has not shown that they are anything but the second coming of UMD so far.

Thirdly, Warner has been favouring hd-dvd if anything so far, with better soundtracks, more extras, and even some hd-dvd only releases.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

In addition to what Ernie said, you have to admit a $99.00 player certainly doesn't hurt HD-DVD stance in the game. e.g. just becuase you have a PS3 doesn't mean you pretty much have to support Blu-ray, for 99 bones you can go with HD-DVD if it tickles your fancy.

I personally am still not moving formats until I can't get anything on DVD anymore. Blu-ray and HD are still irrelavant and unecesary at this time in my mind.

Jeez I don't know how irrelevant HD is... when I watch normal tv on my (hd)tv it looks horrible... DVD's are pretty good, but HD-DVD blows reg DVD out of the water in my opinion. I even watch King Kong on HD over and over even though I hate the movie... it came with my player and it looks stunning compared to anything else I've ever seen on tv. Also HD XBOX/PS3 are crazy... heads and shoulders above SD.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Jeez I don't know how irrelevant HD is... when I watch normal tv on my (hd)tv it looks horrible... DVD's are pretty good, but HD-DVD blows reg DVD out of the water in my opinion. I even watch King Kong on HD over and over even though I hate the movie... it came with my player and it looks stunning compared to anything else I've ever seen on tv. Also HD XBOX/PS3 are crazy... heads and shoulders above SD.

By and large for a movie the make or break has nothing to do with picture or sound. It has to do with the acting, directing and script. For some reason I don't much care about the HD movie experience compared to regular DVD. I do care about regular TV vs HDTV. I figure the reason is because the jump from a decent DVD player on a decent HD TV up to HD-DVD (or blu-ray) is not as significant as regular TV to HDTV which I sort of compare to what would be like to go from VHS to HD-DVD (or Blu-ray).

People have to care about HDTV first before going HD for movie viewing and surprisingly few people have HDTV channels. They are perfectly content with an HDTV and good digital cable feed.

btw. do you watch regular TV channels on your HDTV using a cable box or with the cable plugged directly into the TV? If you plug the cable directly into the TV you should get similar or better quality compared to the same on a regular TV. At least I do. If you watch those channels through a cable box they will look like crap.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Jeez I don't know how irrelevant HD is... when I watch normal tv on my (hd)tv it looks horrible... DVD's are pretty good, but HD-DVD blows reg DVD out of the water in my opinion. I even watch King Kong on HD over and over even though I hate the movie... it came with my player and it looks stunning compared to anything else I've ever seen on tv. Also HD XBOX/PS3 are crazy... heads and shoulders above SD.

You misunderstand me, HD it self is not irrelevant, I think these two new formats are... I have High def satellite and love sport on it. I rarely watch any non-HD shows any more... that said I watch all my movies on DVD and I think the picture is great.


I have said it before so I won't go into a huge rant but I think there are sooo many people that do not even have a DVD set up properly to take advantage of the lines of resolution available to them on that format, many do not even have widescreen TV's or HD inputs or progressice scan or Component cables etc.. etc... Companies have continuously put out movies on DVD that are of very poor quality not utilizing even the capabilities of the existing format, poor sound or video transfers etc... and now they want me to believe that they will not cash grab and that this *NEW* shiney, can't be copied, format will always be utalized to it's fullest potential... B.S.

Until everyone has DVD set up right, and companies *truly* need more room on DVD's, not that having a second disc with special features is that big of a deal to me, I'm out. I will not buy their *new* format just because they don't want me to have the ability to make a back up of my movie. Your fooling yourself if you think there is any reason beyond piracy (and greed, hence format war) that is driving these new formats to the market... it certainly not need. I think the appathy that most consumers have greeted HD-DVD and Blu-ray with is proof of that.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by ernie

By and large for a movie the make or break has nothing to do with picture or sound. It has to do with the acting, directing and script. For some reason I don't much care about the HD movie experience compared to regular DVD. I do care about regular TV vs HDTV. I figure the reason is because the jump from a decent DVD player on a decent HD TV up to HD-DVD (or blu-ray) is not as significant as regular TV to HDTV which I sort of compare to what would be like to go from VHS to HD-DVD (or Blu-ray).

All depends on the size of your tv. My first hdtv was a 34", and I would agree that dvd's looked fine. When I went to a 100" projector and a 50" plasma, dvd's started looking pretty crappy to the point where it is kind of a distraction now (especially on a poor quality dvd) to watch movies on dvd. And even more distracting is cable/broadcast hdtv compression artifacts that seem especially prevalent in action movies.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

All depends on the size of your tv. My first hdtv was a 34", and I would agree that dvd's looked fine. When I went to a 100" projector and a 50" plasma, dvd's started looking pretty crappy to the point where it is kind of a distraction now (especially on a poor quality dvd) to watch movies on dvd. And even more distracting is cable/broadcast hdtv compression artifacts that seem especially prevalent in action movies.

That helps my point, only someone that know what "cable/broadcast hdtv compression artifacts" means really wants or "needs" Blu-ray or HD-DVD. people who have 100" projection screens and 50" Plasma's obviously care about their veiwing to the point where it makes a difference to them. 90% of the population, maybe more, are not like nfotiu.

[mykalberta]

I have no idea what this will do if anything, but Gizmodo (WebbAlert) is reporting the the copy protection scheme on BluRay has been cracked.

[Bill Bumface]

What percentage of the North American population even owns an HD TV? I would guess less than 50%.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I have no idea what this will do if anything, but Gizmodo (WebbAlert) is reporting the the copy protection scheme on BluRay has been cracked.

Only a matter of time.