Calgary EMS Workers going on strike

[Reggie Dunlop]

I'd rather have a 100 more paramedics serving the city of Calgary at an increased pay scale than paying time and a half or double time for the ones there now. Somehow I don't think the majority of current employees will mind.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I've worked in 3 distinct industries and OT was never paid in any of them.

So you basically took a pay cut to what you originally agreed to?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

So you basically took a pay cut to what you originally agreed to?

No because I understood when I was hired that it wasn't the type of career that was tied to specific hours.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by Frankster

The city is offering them a raise, but IIRC they are offering 12% over three years and the union is demanding 30% over three years, also if memory serves, they are the highest paid EMT's in Canada already.

Sides are disputing the facts...



http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...51367-sun.html

It may have been in the past but it certainly isn't now.

From ottawaparmedics.com....wage rage for Advanced Care Paramedics (roughly the same as a paramedic in Alberta)...wages in 2006 range from $31 to $35...rates in 2007 as high as $37.88.

Wage rates for primary care paramedics (EMT's in Alberta)...in 2006...$26 to $33, 2007...high as $35.50.

So compare that to Calgary EMS and they're paid less by a few dollars per hour.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No because I understood when I was hired that it wasn't the type of career that was tied to specific hours.

Still think you're being hosed if that's the case.

If you're an independent contractor you'd have billable hours?

Pushing past 48 hours week is just wrong. Just is. If that's Industry Standard, that industry is exploitive.

EDIT: Sorry if I was a bit harsh -- but why is your time less important than the company's? I mean, they must think you're important enough to hire for your time. They don't want to pay for value-added time or they can't? If they can't then they're relying on you too much. I mean, they run they company don't they? Maybe you have more real clout than you've been lead to believe.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by jar_e

It may have been in the past but it certainly isn't now.

From ottawaparmedics.com....wage rage for Advanced Care Paramedics (roughly the same as a paramedic in Alberta)...wages in 2006 range from $31 to $35...rates in 2007 as high as $37.88.

Wage rates for primary care paramedics (EMT's in Alberta)...in 2006...$26 to $33, 2007...high as $35.50.

So compare that to Calgary EMS and they're paid less by a few dollars per hour.

Thanks for looking this up!

I don't see why Calgary EMS shouldn't be the highest paid in the country. They are, after all, in a city where the economy is being overdriven by a bunch of Oil & Gas people who make far too much money. In order to get by, they almost need to be the highest paid -- for the moment that is.

Is this strike only about money? Or are there other major points such as hours per week/benifets/vacation time up for consideration?

Given a choice, if I were to take a trip in an Ambulance, I would rather have an overpaid but satisfied EMT saving my life then an angry disgruntled EMT. But that's just me.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

I'd rather have a 100 more paramedics serving the city of Calgary at an increased pay scale than paying time and a half or double time for the ones there now. Somehow I don't think the majority of current employees will mind.

That makes sense to us but for some reason the people who have the power to make that happen don't see it this way. My wife is a nurse. She worked long and hard for several years part-time before she even got a sniff at a full-time position. The vast majority of her coworkers were part-time or casual and most of them had to hold down two or more jobs. There was constant turnover and patient care suffered.

To keep some consistency in the level of service, to make employees and patients happier and more comfortable, management could have had a more stable work force by creating more full-time positions. At some point, I guess, having a pile of part-timers is cheaper than having a smaller reserve of full-timers. Maybe it's the wages and benefits. Not sure. But at some point you'd think the other non-financial costs outweigh the $$$ savings.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Any company that expects free overtime is basically stealing from their employees. Might as well scoop down into the trousers and lift the wallet. Time is money, and that goes for employees too.

Some industries, my own included, are exempt from the overtime requirements of Alberta employment standards.

[arsenal]

From Citybeat:

The City of Calgary has offered voluntary interest arbitration in an effort to reach a contract settlement with the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) Local 3421 representing paramedics.

http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybea...191848_29741_0

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Any company that expects free overtime is basically stealing from their employees. Might as well scoop down into the trousers and lift the wallet. Time is money, and that goes for employees too.

Work in the private sector where a good portion of your pay is based on preformance and year end bonuses. You wont have such a narrow view then - in the last 2 years, 25% of my year end salary has come in March in one cheque for year end preformance bonuses.

Fact is there are alot of people who work more than 40 hours a week and only get paid there regular salary. They do that for career advancement, incentive bonuses etc. Not everyone works for Broncos city where they think its acceptable to increase property tax every year. I take courses on the weekend at SAIT, do I expect to get paid for those, no - I do expect my extra effort to be rewarded when it comes time for career advancement or salary bonuses.

MYK

Anyone who thinks 50K in the current world is an ok salary should give their head a shake. Sure there are people that survive on that, but let's be honest, do you really think you could buy a house, car, and have a family on that salary?

For the record, I don't see why they should get an increase beyond inflation. I agree with Jiri, what has changed to demand more?

Just an FYI, although EMS personel do have their bouts of danger, they very rarely enter a potentially dangerous situation w/o the police entering first and subduing or dealing with the safety issue first.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Work in the private sector where a good portion of your pay is based on preformance and year end bonuses. You wont have such a narrow view then - in the last 2 years, 25% of my year end salary has come in March in one cheque for year end preformance bonuses.

Fact is there are alot of people who work more than 40 hours a week and only get paid there regular salary. They do that for career advancement, incentive bonuses etc. Not everyone works for Broncos city where they think its acceptable to increase property tax every year. I take courses on the weekend at SAIT, do I expect to get paid for those, no - I do expect my extra effort to be rewarded when it comes time for career advancement or salary bonuses.

MYK

Yes... but that is the employee's choice and they are hoping it pays off. What Reggie said was that it's wrong for an employer to "expect" uncompensated overtime. In that, he's dead on.

If you as an employee accept that overtime is part of the job and not over and beyond expectations, you're being fleeced. Again, different then what you describe as you are putting in extra effort in the hope that you will be rewarded with better jobs/pay/noteriety.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Anyone who thinks 50K in the current world is an ok salary should give their head a shake. Sure there are people that survive on that, but let's be honest, do you really think you could buy a house, car, and have a family on that salary?

Yes, yes you can. Most people don't have a problem with how much they make, but more with how they spend it.

If you cannot afford a decent standard of living for a 4 person family, even in Calgary, with a 50K a year job, you're doing something wrong. Sure, you may live in a smaller house and you may only own a cheap used car, but you can do it. My family managed just fine for 20 years making a total of 30 to 40k a year.

[Burninator]

/\ It's tough to get a mortgage to afford a place in Calgary with that salary.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by llama64

My family managed just fine for 20 years making a total of 30 to 40k a year.

Upto 20 years ago....

This - http://www.socialplanningtoronto.org...ts/Poverty.pdf - info is for Toronto from 2002.

Note, for a family of 4, the LICO (low income cut off) is just over $36 grand. For 5 people, its $40 grand. Its a couple years old, but I think that it gives you the idea....

So if you say 50 grand, in 2002, a family of 5 would just be over the LICO rate.

In 2005, according to Stats Canada, a family of 5, in a city the size of Calgary (well, 500,000 and over) the LICO rate is $44,000. So, given that this number is a couple of years old, and given the context of Calgary and its growth....50 grand/year is at the poverty line.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/resear...MIE2006004.pdf

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Still think you're being hosed if that's the case.

If you're an independent contractor you'd have billable hours?

Pushing past 48 hours week is just wrong. Just is. If that's Industry Standard, that industry is exploitive.

EDIT: Sorry if I was a bit harsh -- but why is your time less important than the company's? I mean, they must think you're important enough to hire for your time. They don't want to pay for value-added time or they can't? If they can't then they're relying on you too much. I mean, they run they company don't they? Maybe you have more real clout than you've been lead to believe.

Part of it is the nature of the industry. If one works for a company that allows you to manage one's own time, what happens if that person needs to put extra hours in to complete their job. Will workers simply make sure they don't get their jobs done in order to cash in on the OT?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by llama64

Yes... but that is the employee's choice and they are hoping it pays off. What Reggie said was that it's wrong for an employer to "expect" uncompensated overtime. In that, he's dead on.

If you as an employee accept that overtime is part of the job and not over and beyond expectations, you're being fleeced. Again, different then what you describe as you are putting in extra effort in the hope that you will be rewarded with better jobs/pay/noteriety.

Well certainly no one is going to put in OT unless their is something in it for them. Whether it be long-term career advancement, or straight out cash. My point is though that lots of people have jobs where they don't get paid for the OT they work, and thus the fact that EMS workers DO makes it a relevent point to bring up.

[Agamemnon]

Doesn't have much to do with EMS, but I know tons of white-collar workers in Calgary who are salaried who don't get paid over time. They have to complete the project by the deadline, if they don't it's their ass, and they may have to work 40 hours/week to get this done. I thought most salaried people didn't get over time, just people who billed hourly... probably different everywhere.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

In 2005, according to Stats Canada, a family of 5, in a city the size of Calgary (well, 500,000 and over) the LICO rate is $44,000. So, given that this number is a couple of years old, and given the context of Calgary and its growth....50 grand/year is at the poverty line.

Ok, that makes sense. Do the tax brackets take these numbers into account? I was under the impression that 50k and up was hitting the upper brackets. Anything lower then 20k was poverty line and not taxable.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by llama64

Ok, that makes sense. Do the tax brackets take these numbers into account? I was under the impression that 50k and up was hitting the upper brackets. Anything lower then 20k was poverty line and not taxable.

LICO = Low income cut-offs (LICOs) are income thresholds, determined by analysing family expenditure data, below which families will devote a larger share of income to the necessities of food, shelter and clothing than the average family would. To reflect differences in the costs of necessities
among different community and family sizes, LICOs are defined for five categories of community size and seven of family size.

(from the stats can link).