PROOF that Evolution is a Myth

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well if it's a matter of rationality, I guess I can see it as a teaching aide. I don't think it's irrational to say "I don't need a teaching aide to learn the basics of morality" though. I don't think anyone else does either.

Well, some people do.
I don't think it's irrational to say that some people like to have something like the Bible that, has examples ready to go for some of the important and sometimes difficult questions that may come up once in a while.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Burninator

There is always a point in human history where don't understand something. But why do we always attribute that lack of understanding to something divine?

Only some people do that.

If all humans were like that, then science would never have developed to where it has.

In spite of religion, for the past 500 years, science has been the much bigger influence. It's also worth mentioning that many of the early scientists during the people of awakening in the Western judeo-christian world, were "indoctrinated" by religion.... yet here we are.

This is why we should watch the general statements.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Now you gotta admit that is kind of a funny spelling error, given the subject.

Good catch, that is kinda funny.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Burninator

But your child doesn't. That's what I am getting at.

Maybe your child would prefer to go to a private school instead of public, but the majority of people deny their children that. Frankly, if asked if I wanted to go to Woodbine School or St. Jude back in 1989, I would have said St. Jude. You know why? Cause they have a bigger playground, and better soccer fields. Thats about as deep as I could be expected to go. I wouldn't have known the difference between Catholic or Public, aside from being told I'd have to pray at catholic school... and even then, as a child... annoying prayer or smaller playground.... I think we know the answer.

There are severe limitations to a child's cognitive abilities at age 4.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Maybe your child would prefer to go to a private school instead of public, but the majority of people deny their children that. Frankly, if asked if I wanted to go to Woodbine School or St. Jude back in 1989, I would have said St. Jude. You know why? Cause they have a bigger playground, and better soccer fields. Thats about as deep as I could be expected to go. I wouldn't have known the difference between Catholic or Public, aside from being told I'd have to pray at catholic school... and even then, as a child... annoying prayer or smaller playground.... I think we know the answer.

There are severe limitations to a child's cognitive abilities at age 4.

I have not said that we should ask the children which deity (if any) they believe in, and then educate them thusly. Obviously the children are not in a place to make that decision. What I am saying is that we should put them in a school that doesn't advocate religious views either way. Then they can make up their mind when have the cognitive ability.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I have not said that we should ask the children which deity (if any) they believe in, and then educate them thusly. Obviously the children are not in a place to make that decision. What I am saying is that we should put them in a school that doesn't advocate religious views either way. Then they can make up their mind when have the cognitive ability.

Not really going to happen if they're still being forced to go to church.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Well, some people do.
I don't think it's irrational to say that some people like to have something like the Bible that, has examples ready to go for some of the important and sometimes difficult questions that may come up once in a while.

Fair enough. That seems reasonable enough although not my kind of thing.

[photon]

I do think having only a public and catholic system is kind of old fashioned.. the idea of vouchers and $$ that follows the kid around is better, have private schools that can cater to specific groups.

As long as the standards of education are maintained (ie a "Christian" private school would still be required to teach evolution for example). Though that might be hard to enforce. Hm...

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

But your child doesn't. That's what I am getting at.

Do you think that atheists are at home teaching their children about the bible as well as well humanism, allowing them to decide? Muslims teaching their children about atheism? Generally children are smart, but you start giving them too many options and they aren't going to know what to do with them. I recognize that you said we should raise our children in a religious vacuum, only introducing religion when they are old enough to comprehend religion, but there's much that we say and do in everyday life that would have to stop first... how many times do you say "holy ____" or "Jesus Christ" in a day? What are you going to say when your child asks what holy is, or who Jesus Christ is without bringing religion into the conversation. And every household will have their own version of dogma that they teach, if even accidentally.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by photon

I do think having only a public and catholic system is kind of old fashioned.. the idea of vouchers and $$ that follows the kid around is better, have private schools that can cater to specific groups.

Isn't that sort of the way it works now?

As I understand it, private schools get the same funding as public schools on a per child basis, but the difference in cost is due to smaller class sizes, and better equipement etc. (I could be way off on this and if I am feel free to correct me).

Right now there are private schools that cater to specific groups (the muslim school for example).

The difference being that when people check that "Catholic" box on their taxes, they're paying for that isntead of the public system, and it becomes an economy of scale thing. Enough people choose to send their kids there, and pay for it, that the regular funding is enough.

This is really one of the few, if not only, places where we get to directly decide where our tax money goes, and I'm kind of gald for it.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Do you think that atheists are at home teaching their children about the bible as well as well humanism, allowing them to decide? Muslims teaching their children about atheism? Generally children are smart, but you start giving them too many options and they aren't going to know what to do with them. I recognize that you said we should raise our children in a religious vacuum, only introducing religion when they are old enough to comprehend religion, but there's much that we say and do in everyday life that would have to stop first... how many times do you say "holy ____" or "Jesus Christ" in a day? What are you going to say when your child asks what holy is, or who Jesus Christ is without bringing religion into the conversation. And every household will have their own version of dogma that they teach, if even accidentally.

LOL...what would the teachings of "Atheism" be in your world? Just wondering?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FireFly

And for some people, the lack of religious programming made them believe in a God. I'm sure you'll find more and more people like that as more and more children are raised in atheist households.

LOL...where do you dig this stuff up? Do you have proof or links to anything?
What IS an Atheist upbringing to you?

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

LOL...where do you dig this stuff up? Do you have proof or links to anything?
What IS an Atheist upbringing to you?

Well, I said athiest households, not athiest upbringing. I don't know what an athiest upbringing would be like as that's not how I was raised. Did you not raise your children in an athiest household? Why don't you tell me what an athiest upbringing is like...

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

LOL...what would the teachings of "Atheism" be in your world? Just wondering?

I'm not sure what that has to do with the conversation at hand so I'm not going to get into it. If you'd like to derail the thread further, you'll have to look elsewhere.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Isn't that sort of the way it works now?

As I understand it, private schools get the same funding as public schools on a per child basis, but the difference in cost is due to smaller class sizes, and better equipement etc. (I could be way off on this and if I am feel free to correct me).

Right now there are private schools that cater to specific groups (the muslim school for example).

The difference being that when people check that "Catholic" box on their taxes, they're paying for that isntead of the public system, and it becomes an economy of scale thing. Enough people choose to send their kids there, and pay for it, that the regular funding is enough.

This is really one of the few, if not only, places where we get to directly decide where our tax money goes, and I'm kind of gald for it.

I remember them talking about the money following the kid, but I didn't know they'd already done that. That's cool.

So if the money follows the kid, why do we have the box to check at all then though? There's one pool of money with an allotment to each kid. Unless there's two pools, one public for all public schools, one Catholic for all Catholic and private schools? Shouldn't it say Public/Private then?

I should know more about this considering my kid is school age in a few years!

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by Cheese

LOL...where do you dig this stuff up? Do you have proof or links to anything?
What IS an Atheist upbringing to you?

Logical thought where beliefs require proof before acceptance?

A few have already mentioned this, but my point is not to teach children that there isn't a god. Let them decide that for themselves. But do not send them to church every Sunday where they are taught that there is a higher-being who sees all and hears all, and that if they sin, they'll burn forever in hell... but don't worry, he loves you!

Send the child to a school that doesn't teach anything either way. Let the child grow and mature without the words of the bible implanted in his/her mind.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Do you think that atheists are at home teaching their children about the bible as well as well humanism, allowing them to decide? Muslims teaching their children about atheism? Generally children are smart, but you start giving them too many options and they aren't going to know what to do with them. I recognize that you said we should raise our children in a religious vacuum, only introducing religion when they are old enough to comprehend religion, but there's much that we say and do in everyday life that would have to stop first... how many times do you say "holy ____" or "Jesus Christ" in a day? What are you going to say when your child asks what holy is, or who Jesus Christ is without bringing religion into the conversation. And every household will have their own version of dogma that they teach, if even accidentally.

As far as I'm concerned, their isn't a lot of teaching involved in humanism. You don't have to teach a kid not to believe in Jesus or Allah or Zeus. You will have to take an active role in getting them to believe in one of them though.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by photon

I remember them talking about the money following the kid, but I didn't know they'd already done that. That's cool.

So if the money follows the kid, why do we have the box to check at all then though? There's one pool of money with an allotment to each kid. Unless there's two pools, one public for all public schools, one Catholic for all Catholic and private schools? Shouldn't it say Public/Private then?

I should know more about this considering my kid is school age in a few years!

No, as I understand it, the money doesn't follow the kid, your money still goes to whichever you check in the tax box. So even though I don't have kids going there, my tax money goes to the Catholic board.

But I do believe that private schools are given funding on about the same level per student as the public system. Though as I said, I'm not entirely sure about this.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

As far as I'm concerned, their isn't a lot of teaching involved in humanism. You don't have to teach a kid not to believe in Jesus or Allah or Zeus. You will have to take an active role in getting them to believe in one of them though.

yeah i was raised in a non religious household until i was about 12(when my sisters friends introduced her to christianity and eventually me and my dad accepted christ), and i wasnt taught to believe in anything and thus didnt, except for whatever i learned in school... and i definitly didnt know anything about religion before i was 12.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Do you think that atheists are at home teaching their children about the bible as well as well humanism, allowing them to decide? Muslims teaching their children about atheism? Generally children are smart, but you start giving them too many options and they aren't going to know what to do with them.

It is not out of the question to raise your children without God as a corner stone. If it's not obvious by now, but I am an atheist. The most I talk about God is in this forum. Not every atheist is "preaching" so to see speak about their beliefs in God. And calling for an end of religion. For the most part in my day to day life I don't think about religion or God. Parents are very capable raising their children without forcing their beliefs on their children. Influence one way or the other is unavoidable. But an atheist upbringing doesn't mean anti-god, rather it means that god doesn't come up.

I recognize that you said we should raise our children in a religious vacuum, only introducing religion when they are old enough to comprehend religion,

Religious vacuum is not quite what I am after. I said earlier that I am not sure if schools should teach religion or not. But the more I think about the more I am leaning toward schools teaching all kinds of religion. Now this could be my own jaded opinion but I think if that happens we will have more atheists.

but there's much that we say and do in everyday life that would have to stop first... how many times do you say "holy ____" or "Jesus Christ" in a day? What are you going to say when your child asks what holy is, or who Jesus Christ is without bringing religion into the conversation. And every household will have their own version of dogma that they teach, if even accidentally.

I guess we could take a page out of South Parks book and replace religious words with science.

Instead of god damnit it would be science damnit.

Christ be praised would be science be praised.

And so forth...