12 year old Dakota Fanning wants Oscar: Nude Scene?!?!

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'm sure she is, and will be in the future by all the dirty old men who like to masterbate to pictures of her 12 year old naked body.


I honestly can't believe anyone would think it's appropriate to view a 12 year old naked. I can't believe you agree that her, her mom, her agent, and the director should allow her to be put in front of millions of people while semi-nude. I can't believe you're defending it! What does that say exactly?

"All the dirty old men" I'm not sure exactly how many men you think are pedophiles but I think you are exaggerating that argument.

Is it appropriate for a 12 year old to be naked? If she wants to be, her parents agree, and it is legal.

Ultimately her, her mom, her agent, and the writer/director are the people making the decision and probably the people best able to make the decision. If it is legal and they want to do it, it is their right. It is legal.

I think all those defending it are defending the underlying principles: civil rights, free will, and freedom from censorship.

Now... the decision about whether it is socially acceptable now comes down to the movie-watching public. There aren't enough pedophiles out there, I promise you, to make ANY movie profitable. If people deem it socially acceptable/a good movie then there is not much more to the argument.

This movie isn't trying to gratuitously portray a young girl naked or in a rape scene. The movie is trying to create awareness about child sexual abuse and carry a message to the people who watch it. Whether it does it successfully or not remains to be seen.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

"All the dirty old men" I'm not sure exactly how many men you think are pedophiles but I think you are exaggerating that argument.

No doubt. Its being made out to sound as though the movie is specifically intended to seduce the enormous pedophile community out there. Seems pretty paranoid to me. I can't imagine there are 10's of thousands of pedophiles out there, drooling in anticipation of this movie.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I honestly can't believe anyone would think it's appropriate to view a 12 year old naked.

Believe it, its a reality. Maybe your values aren't in synch with the legal system? Take your beef up with them.

I can't believe you agree that her, her mom, her agent, and the director should allow her to be put in front of millions of people while semi-nude. I can't believe you're defending it! What does that say exactly?

It says that my values are similar to her mom, agent, director, the authorities who supervise minors in motion pictures, and the US legal system on this issue. I think you'd be surprised to find out that you're not in the overwhelming majority on this one.

But like I said, agree to disagree (or not, apparently).

[Dark Gretzky]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

How is she going the ways of Britney??? It's not like she is whoring it up or anything at clubs or anything....she's 12!!, she's a child actress who is takin a edgy role. Yeah, thats what Britney did to ruin her image. Can't even compare the two.

For the record, I think Dakota is a great actress, probably the best child actor out there, and it shows in terms of the actors and directors that she has worked with. Denzel, Deniro, Sean Penn, Mike Myers, Tom Cruise....and Tony Scott and Steven Spielberg as well.

Shes setting a bad example to other child actors who are going to think that they need to do a rape scene and partial nudity to get an oscar, this girl needs to chill she'll eventually get her oscar, but not now. She might end up like the old child stars and be dropped once shes too old.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not saying keep them young, but I went till grade 9 at least to learn about sex.

Learning about the human body is a whole different matter, and I went through that in grade 6.

12 years old seems way to young to me for some reason.

huh?? I took sex education in grade 5 when i was 10.....

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Dark Gretzky

Shes setting a bad example to other child actors who are going to think that they need to do a rape scene and partial nudity to get an oscar, this girl needs to chill she'll eventually get her oscar, but not now. She might end up like the old child stars and be dropped once shes too old.

She's not setting any example unless the movie does well and she wins the oscar. Even then, as reported by her mother and agent, it was a very challenging role for her to taken on. I'm not sure if every child star could do it and even beyond all that, I'm sure there are many child stars who wouldn't want the role even given the opportunity to win an oscar.

For some reason I also don't see Dakota Fanning going anywhere when she gets older. She has a lot of talent and has already been in many big budget blockbusters.

[FireFly]

I had this big long reply all typed out for you discussing the number of sex offenders out there and whatnot, but frankly, I'm wasting my time.

http://www.nsopr.gov/

There are tens of thousands of them out there. And those are just the ones that have been caught.

it is irresponsible of her parents and agent to allow her to be the subject of ANY sort of attention like that. ONE. That's all it takes is one sick freak who gets an obsession, and any responsible parent would never put their child in that sort of danger. Sure it's their 'right', freedom of expression and blah blah blah. It's my 'right' to **** away all my money when I become a mother too and leave my children homeless. That doesn't make it right. We are supposed to be the protectors of children and not everything that is legal protects them. As a matter of fact, some of it is downright harmful.

At 12, Dakota is likely going through puberty as it is and is both troubled and confused. I've been there, I know. And now you have her parents telling her it's okay to show her most intimate parts to strangers. She is not old enough to make the decision on her own. And now she has the idea that it's okay, as long as it's 'art'... Well what happens when she's surfing a chat site and some internet predator tells her he'd like to paint a portrait of her naked? It's art, isn't it? He's a stranger and she's already shown her goods to strangers, what's one more?

It sets a very troubling precedent. You all have too much faith in man-kind. I'm a realist, I know there are perverts out there who will take pleasure out of this.

[gottabekd]

I wonder about causality in this issue...

Is this scene taboo because our society says so?...or does society say it is taboo since there aren't often scenes like this in our movies?

[Flames_Gimp]

there are sicko's out there who will take it the wrong way, wether she is naked or not.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I had this big long reply all typed out for you discussing the number of sex offenders out there and whatnot, but frankly, I'm wasting my time.

http://www.nsopr.gov/

There are tens of thousands of them out there. And those are just the ones that have been caught.

it is irresponsible of her parents and agent to allow her to be the subject of ANY sort of attention like that. ONE. That's all it takes is one sick freak who gets an obsession, and any responsible parent would never put their child in that sort of danger. Sure it's their 'right', freedom of expression and blah blah blah. It's my 'right' to **** away all my money when I become a mother too and leave my children homeless. That doesn't make it right. We are supposed to be the protectors of children and not everything that is legal protects them. As a matter of fact, some of it is downright harmful.

At 12, Dakota is likely going through puberty as it is and is both troubled and confused. I've been there, I know. And now you have her parents telling her it's okay to show her most intimate parts to strangers. She is not old enough to make the decision on her own. And now she has the idea that it's okay, as long as it's 'art'... Well what happens when she's surfing a chat site and some internet predator tells her he'd like to paint a portrait of her naked? It's art, isn't it? He's a stranger and she's already shown her goods to strangers, what's one more?

It sets a very troubling precedent. You all have too much faith in man-kind. I'm a realist, I know there are perverts out there who will take pleasure out of this.

Of course there are people who will take pleasure out of it. There are people who will take pleasure out of pretty much ANYTHING.

I really think your worries about Dakota are not well founded. First of all, the people she is working with likely are not strangers. When you work with someone for months or years on a project I'm sure you get to know them very well. Secondly... She's 12, she's not an idiot and neither are the people who protect her (her parents). By 12 you had better know the basics of life and how to protect yourself or there will be problems. Not only that, this particular 12 year old has had more experience with real world adult issues than most 30 year olds have.

Now, I respect your opinion but I think that while society and adults are meant to protect children, this project does not violate that oath.

IN FACT, I would argue that it strengthens it. Child sexual abuse is a pandemic in some parts of North America. As my best friend has learned in her research into her own problems with it, approximately 1/3 of all children face some sort of sexual abuse by the time they reach adulthood. By bringing this issue to light, some of these children MAY BE HELPED. Likely far more than would be harmed by the making of this movie.

I can almost guarantee you that Dakota Fanning will not be personally harmed by the making of the movie.

If the movie helps other victims of abuse in any way, I can't help but argue for it's right to be released.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

I wonder about causality in this issue...

Is this scene taboo because our society says so?...or does society say it is taboo since there aren't often scenes like this in our movies?

It is taboo because there aren't often scenes like it.

It's like anything... if you look at the difference between North America and Europe.

In Europe nudity is everywhere. TV shows, commercials, billboards, beaches, streets sometimes... everywhere.

In North Amerca nudity is taboo, for the most part. Reserved for some movies, very very little mainstream television, almost never advertising, and public nudity is the ultimate taboo.

[FireFly]

The issue can be brought to light without her being naked.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

In Europe nudity is everywhere. TV shows, commercials, billboards, beaches, streets sometimes... everywhere.

Keep in mind there is a world of difference between nudity and showing a rape. Yes, I agree that we North Americans seem to have "less enlightened" view towards nudity. However never have I seen anything outside of North America that would indicate that showing a pre-teen being raped as being acceptable.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by FireFly

The issue can be brought to light without her being naked.

Perhaps you are right, but would it have the same impact?

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Keep in mind there is a world of difference between nudity and showing a rape. Yes, I agree that we North Americans seem to have "less enlightened" view towards nudity. However never have I seen anything outside of North America that would indicate that showing a pre-teen being raped as being acceptable.

I am just saying that if the scenes were mainstream in movies, they would be more acceptable. Like anything.

That being said, I hope they do not become mainstream in movies or in any other media.

The reason I defend this film is simply because, if the message is strong enough it might help someone.

[gottabekd]

Well, to me, I don't think the fact that she can be seen 'partially nude' (or half naked, or whatever) would make much of a difference. Of course, all speculation as none of us have seen the scene. I'm thinking that in a child rape scene, if a nipple is flashed on the screen, the nipple isn't going to make all the difference. The scene is disturbing either way. Now, it would be different if there was explicit nudity - that is quite different. But I don't think that is the case here.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Perhaps you are right, but would it have the same impact?

Well, you've read it here that the scene in To Kill a Mockingbird was more than effective... and there was no nudity in that.

This is a movie to prevent child abuse, but you cannot tell me for certain that Dakota Fanning will not experience some sort of mental affects from doing this film and any fallout that may arise. That is also child abuse, it's just mental abuse which is no less harmful.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Well, you've read it here that the scene in To Kill a Mockingbird was more than effective... and there was no nudity in that.

This is a movie to prevent child abuse, but you cannot tell me for certain that Dakota Fanning will not experience some sort of mental affects from doing this film and any fallout that may arise. That is also child abuse, it's just mental abuse which is no less harmful.

I find it hard to believe that acting, something she has spent almost her entire life doing, would cause her mental anguish... no matter the scene. She knows when she is acting, I'm sure she will be fine with it.

[FireFly]

Ummm... how many child actors do you know that don't have some sort of mental issues? As well, I also said the fallout from the movie, not jsut the movie. I'm glad you're so sure that a girl you've never met will be fine that you're telling me that my being concerned at all for her well being is over the top....

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

She knows when she is acting, I'm sure she will be fine with it.

I'm quite curious on what basis you are making that conclusion. I've heard of adult actresses mention how different roles have affected them, and they choke back a tear as they tell us how deeply it affected them. I can't see how a child would be any less affected.