CBC - Should it stay or go?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Some roads and bridges are necessities, but not all. A great deal of them only exist because people wanted to move to nicer real estate away from cities, ie. the suburbs. It's a luxury. Most are roads and bridges that I will never use, and the majority will never use, but we all pay for them.

And I would also argue that it is a necessity in a country with so much space between some populations, to have universal access to information and media.

Which IMO should be news. I don't think its a universal need to show crap shows on CBC.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

But I view the CBC as a "Public Good". There are many communities who, on their own, will not be able to support the CBC. Global, CTV and Chum are free to target their offerings to the more densely populated regions. The CBC's mandate is, the the best of my knowledge, to provide coverage to as much of the country as possible. It will be difficult for the CBC to cover large regions and break even.
Privatizing the CBC would force them to cut service to remote areas, or go out of business; and in my mind, that would be a larger cost to the nation than what is being paid now.

In the age of satellite television, there is no reason why anyone couldnt get any network they want. Looking at CBC's website, I havent found a town that couldnt get CBC (or anything else) via Bell or StarChoice.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Allow me to reiterate, since you are jumping all over the place:

1. Government should be in the buisness of providing only essential public services.

2. A television network is not an essential public service.

3. The military is.

Strawman, and a weak one at that.

This is where we disagree, because I think television and radio is essential in a country as expansive as ours. It connects people in remote areas to what is going in the world outside theirs. It allows them to be part of it. And if there ever was a national emergency, the airwaves could be vital.

It wasn't a straw man argument. It was just a comparison. And while the military is a vital service, not everything they do is vital. A lot of money gets wasted through the military.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Actually, I didn't, but thanks for trying.

I brought up freedom by using the figure of speech, "it's a free country". All I meant is that if people don't like the programming, then they can choose not to watch.

You however, brought up the idea that not being able to choose how your taxes are spent, is somehow an infringement on your rights... which it isn't. That is not a rights issue. Being able to choose whether you tune in or not to CBC is a rights issue though.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which IMO should be news. I don't think its a universal need to show crap shows on CBC.

I actually happen to like CBC shows, both radio and television. Of course, for people is my field, CBC radio is the only thing we have much of the time.

Of course, I don't like 100% of the shows on CBC, but at least they are different. You can turn on your TV, and most of the time, there are 4 or 5 American channels all showing the same thing. At least CBC offers different things. It not all reality shows, game shows, and sit coms.

Of course, it's all a matter of opinion. And if it came down to it, I would pay more money out of my pocket to keep CBC public.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

In the age of satellite television, there is no reason why anyone couldnt get any network they want. Looking at CBC's website, I havent found a town that couldnt get CBC (or anything else) via Bell or StarChoice.

Unless they couldn't afford it.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

This is where we disagree, because I think television and radio is essential in a country as expansive as ours. It connects people in remote areas to what is going in the world outside theirs. It allows them to be part of it. And if there ever was a national emergency, the airwaves could be vital.

Television and radio are available to anyone who wants it via satellite. The government is not providing a service that does not already exist.

It wasn't a straw man argument. It was just a comparison. And while the military is a vital service, not everything they do is vital. A lot of money gets wasted through the military.

Just making a comparison for no reason, eh?

I don't disagree that a lot of money is being wasted in the military. What is your point?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I actually happen to like CBC shows, both radio and television. Of course, for people is my field, CBC radio is the only thing we have much of the time.

Of course, I don't like 100% of the shows on CBC, but at least they are different. You can turn on your TV, and most of the time, there are 4 or 5 American channels all showing the same thing. At least CBC offers different things. It not all reality shows, game shows, and sit coms.

Of course, it's all a matter of opinion. And if it came down to it, I would pay more money out of my pocket to keep CBC public.

Thats the problem. Outside of HNIC and 6 PM news, I don't watch CBC. Why should I pay money for a organization that can't make decent programs to show on CBC?

And they don't have to come from the US either, many Canadians like watching something along the lines of 24 or CSI, CBC should get a show like that going. Would greatly improve their ratings.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Television and radio are available to anyone who wants it via satellite. The government is not providing a service that does not already exist.

Not everyone in this country can afford satellite... especially in remote northern communities.

Just making a comparison for no reason, eh?

I don't disagree that a lot of money is being wasted in the military. What is your point?

My point is that just because we don't choose how our taxes are directly spent, it doesn't mean it is taking away our personal freedoms. If it were that way, other government funded entities, like the military, would be taking away my freedom.

See how silly it is to equate government spending with our personal freedom?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Azure

Thats the problem. Outside of HNIC and 6 PM news, I don't watch CBC. Why should I pay money for a organization that can't make decent programs to show on CBC?

And they don't have to come from the US either, many Canadians like watching something along the lines of 24 or CSI, CBC should get a show like that going. Would greatly improve their ratings.

The problem is that the CBC needs to try and cover a huge spectrum of interests. Even though most people will probably not be interested in everything that is on CBC 24/7 because of the massive variety, there is likely at least an hour of programming per day that will appeal to a particular demographic in this country.

They have news, sports, movies, kids shows, teen shows, old people shows, outdoors shows, talk shows, comedy, documentaries, etc... How many other networks have that kind of variety (or need to)? Most networks specialize in just 1 or 2 areas now.

Also, I would be willing to bet that shows like CSI and 24 have budgets that are higher than what CBC can afford. Part of the reason those shows are good, is because they can lure good actors, and actors that are highly marketable. I would be all for increasing CBCs budget though.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Why?

Why could the CBC not continue to provide the same type and quality of programming as it does now?

Television is a reflection of what the viewers want to see. If your argument is that the CBC cannot retain its current nature as a private network, then you are also arguing that it is not offering what Canadians as a whole wish to see.



Actually, I didn't, but thanks for trying.

It couldn't provide the same quality and type off programming it does now because it would be more controlled by the advertisers which follow the bottom line which as often as not are foriegn and won't give the programming that CANADIANS want to see.

As far as the army goes, we could hire some American firm who could hire third world battle hardened mercenaries at half the price. But you would probably think that is a good idea and see no problem too. Lets put all our services out to the lowest bidder.

You may not have been the first to mention it but you did say "Frankly, it is not a free country in this case". I was responding to this statement and lets keep the snide remarks out of this discusssion.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Also, I would be willing to bet that shows like CSI and 24 have budgets that are higher than what CBC can afford. Part of the reason those shows are good, is because they can lure good actors, and actors that are highly marketable. I would be all for increasing CBCs budget though.

Variety is good, yes. But I'm not talking about hiring American actors to do our shows. There are many Canadian guys that could cast parts in interesting shows as well.

Get more people watching CBC, the more money you make.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Bring back Don Messer's Jubilee.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Azure

Variety is good, yes. But I'm not talking about hiring American actors to do our shows. There are many Canadian guys that could cast parts in interesting shows as well.

Get more people watching CBC, the more money you make.

But how many Canadian actors working in Canada are marketable, like say Keifer Sutherland? Most established actors move south. While there are still some talented ones here, not too many have the name recognition to lure an audience. Add to that, the sets, travel, and special effects that American shows can afford, and it is really hard for CBC to compete in that genre.

Maybe we can lure LA FlamesFan back to Canada?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Maybe we can lure LA FlamesFan back to Canada?

The Ryan Northcott Show? I'd watch that!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The Ryan Northcott Show? I'd watch that!

He would kick both George Strombodopolous's and Jian Golmeshie's asses!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

But how many Canadian actors working in Canada are marketable, like say Keifer Sutherland? Most established actors move south. While there are still some talented ones here, not too many have the name recognition to lure an audience. Add to that, the sets, travel, and special effects that American shows can afford, and it is really hard for CBC to compete in that genre.

Maybe we can lure LA FlamesFan back to Canada?

Why do they move south though? Thats the problem we're facing, and I believe CBC, with better programming, and better shows, can keep some actors back here in Canada. We don't need to spend 100 million on a show like CSI, but it would be nice to have a thriller/action show on CBC, something that people would be intrguied by. I know I would watch it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The Ryan Northcott Show? I'd watch that!

Hell yes, I would too!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It couldn't provide the same quality and type off programming it does now because it would be more controlled by the advertisers which follow the bottom line which as often as not are foriegn and won't give the programming that CANADIANS want to see.

I am continually amazed at how you defeat your own argument even before you make it.

A CBC would be controlled by advertisers? Sure. What do the advertisers want? They want viewers. They want eyeballs seeing their commercials. If CANADIANS want to see what CBC offers, then there will be enough eyeballs to satisfy the advertisers without any changes. If there are not enough people watching CBC, then yes, CBC will have to adapt and give Canadians what they want.

You may not have been the first to mention it but you did say "Frankly, it is not a free country in this case". I was responding to this statement and lets keep the snide remarks out of this discusssion.

All I said was that I wasnt the one who brought it up. Not a hard thing to realize if one reads the thread.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

I am continually amazed at how you defeat your own argument even before you make it.

A CBC would be controlled by advertisers? Sure. What do the advertisers want? They want viewers. They want eyeballs seeing their commercials. If CANADIANS want to see what CBC offers, then there will be enough eyeballs to satisfy the advertisers without any changes. If there are not enough people watching CBC, then yes, CBC will have to adapt and give Canadians what they want.



All I said was that I wasnt the one who brought it up. Not a hard thing to realize if one reads the thread.

Well, I can guarantee you that advertisers won't give me everything that this Canadian wants. Advertisers are notorious for pandering to the lowest common denominator and quickly canceling many good shows before they get off the ground. Since advertisers are paying they also get artistic control and anything not fitting into their demographics, never gets produced.

Probably 90% of prime time of CTV,Global, City, etc is devoted to American shows produced in the US for American advertisers for American audiences and you think we should give our lone true Canadian network the boot. Sad but true, the ice is definetly tilted against Canadian productions and I don't mind contributing some tax dollars to CBC.

I'm not condemning commercial TV, I'm saying that I like my freedom to choose alternatives.