Are the Flames re-building?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

It's too bad that only mods can make polls. Could make all sorts of interesting ones in both FOI and OT forums.

Just to avoid any confusion. I'm not a mod.
I can create polls I think because I run the CPHL fantasy league.

[The Fonz]

Voting and then finding out you're in the 6%

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Just to avoid any confusion. I'm not a mod.
I can create polls I think because I run the CPHL fantasy league.

I had always just assumed you had residual mod powers

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

I voted no for now. If they trade Coleman / Kadri, that signals the rebuild for me. I could see some argument for the rebuild starting when Markstrom was traded, but then the team didn't sell many more players for awhile, as they pushed for a playoff spot. When did the rebuild start in your opinion?

For me the Toffoli trade.

June 28, 2023

2.6 years ago

Conroy hired 8 weeks (roughly) earlier. And they really haven't done a thing for "now" since.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Just to avoid any confusion. I'm not a mod.
I can create polls I think because I run the CPHL fantasy league.

Mmhmm. If we try to put you on ignore it says you’re a mod/admin and we aren't allowed to. This administration doesn't want you to believe your eyes only what they tell you.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Mmhmm. If we try to put you on ignore it says you’re a mod/admin and we aren't allowed to. This administration doesn't want you to believe your eyes only what they tell you.

Now why on earth would ANYONE want to put me on ignore? Madness.
I'm a mod for the CPHL forum. That's why it says that. But I can't suspend or ban users, or see reported posts or anything like that.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I voted no because it's a stupid question.

You might have well have just said "have the flames traded players? Yes or no"

"It's dark in here."
"Is the light switch up? Yes or no."
"Well, yes..."
"Oh, then I guess it isn't dark then is it?"

Jesus Christ. Obviously they're "rebuilding." They're trading players for other players. That's not really the problem tho, is it? I want to win a Stanley Cup, but we're up against a league with incredibly stacked teams with players who have more skill in their pinky fingers than we have on our entire roster combined. And we're trading our best players for late-in-the-round draft picks and roster players, instead of early-in-the-round picks and leaving space for our prospects to move up.

Yes they're making changes, but they're not actually changing anything at all at the end of the day. We didn't even trade Andersson for a friggin forward, for crying out loud. We literally traded him for another right-shot D to replace him, and people are acting like that's how you rebuild. I'll change my mind if they trade Whitecloud for more picks and leave room for Parekh to play full-time, but I strongly suspect they wanted Whitecloud and the plan is to keep him.

Ok ...

[circle]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So obviously there is a lot of interest in exploring this further.

My proposal for a 2nd question would be

“On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 meaning not satisfied at all, and 10 being extremely satisfied, how satisfied are you with the Flames re-build up until this point.”.

Satisfaction has a bunch of dimensions. How aggressive they have been, how proactive, if they should have started earlier. People can choose to consider whatever dimensions they want. But would people accept that as a good 2nd stage question?

I like it.

What would make it even better is if we can make this new poll into the de-facto rebuild thread instead of having to read the same old discussions in every GDT, GT, PGT, Trade Rumors, etc.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Apologies for calling it stupid, btw. Misguided or not the right question would have been better choices probably.

No.
The "right" question was the one the person who made the pool wanted answered, which was:
Are the Flames Re-Building?"

That is it

[Aarongavey]

This is a great poll question. I voted rebuild because that is what they have been doing since Conroy became GM. Others see signings of guys like Bean and Kirkland as proof that they will not let the dream die and are trying to win. Fascinated to see the results of the poll.

[dino7c]

There is no perfect rebuild...teams sucked and won lotteries. They get all kinds of credit.

Chicago held on to Kane and Domi too long by some CP standards. They were their leading scorers and kept the team out of the basement. They also won their last game knocking the Pens out of a playoff spot on the road and bumped up another spot in the standings.

Turns out 3rd last was the lucky spot though so they are the smartest team ever.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is a great poll question. I voted rebuild because that is what they have been doing since Conroy became GM. Others see signings of guys like Bean and Kirkland as proof that they will not let the dream die and are trying to win. Fascinated to see the results of the poll.

It has never really been about if they are rebuilding but it has always been about how they are rebuilding.

[InternationalVillager]

93% have the perception Flames are rebuilding.

However, the front office is not within that population.

Rebiggle, Rewiggle, Rejiggle it is.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

It has never really been about if they are rebuilding but it has always been about how they are rebuilding.

Multiple people spend their days telling us they aren't so it was good to clear things up.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

93% have the perception Flames are rebuilding.

However, the front office is not within that population.

Rebiggle, Rewiggle, Rejiggle it is.

"He's not going anywhere" says every NHL front office, days/weeks before firing their head coach.

Their words are rarely truthful with the public. And that's fine.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Multiple people spend their days telling us they aren't so it was good to clear things up.

I don’t agree. I think it is stated by a small minority of posters and those who love to staunchly defend the organization jump on every post that questions if they are rebuilding because it is very low hanging fruit to disprove and obviously irks people who believe strongly in the direction of the team. This thread shows 94% of responders think the flames are rebuilding so it is good to have that endless argument put to rest.

The discussion is shifting to their approach which I think is up for debate.

[The EBUG's EBUG]

It's a rebuild. It didn't start that way when they pivoted off Tkachuk and co but that's where we're at. Anybody arguing otherwise is delusional.

That being said, these things aren't binary, and the issue that some posters have on here regarding the extent to which they're aggressively prioritizing youth opportunity and roster turnover versus allowing the team to flounder while maintaining a cohesive group of veterans is very validly up for debate.

That's where the good faith disagreements are coming from I think.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

93% have the perception Flames are rebuilding.

However, the front office is not within that population.

Rebiggle, Rewiggle, Rejiggle it is.

So I believe you have some inside info here and have shared as much.

So is this based on the public message they send, or do you feel like this is the message behind the scenes too?

Because the message I've heard is that behind the scenes they don't want to tank, want to remain competitive, wanted to make the playoffs this year, but aren't doing anything that would potentially hurt them longer term and that building from the draft is the focus.

And wonder if that aligns to what you're hearing.

[dino7c]

Every team "wants to make the playoffs" in September

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is a great poll question. I voted rebuild because that is what they have been doing since Conroy became GM. Others see signings of guys like Bean and Kirkland as proof that they will not let the dream die and are trying to win. Fascinated to see the results of the poll.

Seems pretty likely that Conroy got hired selling the management that he'd try to retool, rather than rebuild, and only embraced the full rebuild after the horrendous start to the 2023/24 season, where it became clear to the team and to vets like Hanifin and Lindholm the team wasn't going to be good for a while.

I don't see why they would be having contract discussions with Hanifin or Lindholm otherwise (https://flamesnation.ca/news/friedma...-million-range)

By the time Lindholm, Hanifin and Tanev were traded, it should have been clear that they were headed fully for a rebuild. Moving Markstrom should have eliminated even the biggest skeptics doubts.

There only seemed to remain a debate because people either didn't like that the Flames weren't intentionally tanking and trading vets long before their contract year, or because they wanted to hear the Flames use the word rebuild, which they still won't likely to keep their vets happy and the team and coaching staff motivated.