[Rumour] TSN: Kadri wants to win and do what is best for Flames

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

In general the Flames seem like an organization that treats its players better than most.

That said players don't usually throw teams under the bus. I always thought Gio had some hard feelings about the Flames not protecting him in the expansion draft. D. Hamilton didn't seem like he was a fit. I'm pretty sure Neal, and M. Smith were a bit bitter with their time in CGY. Rittich seemed heart broken when he was traded.

The mass exodus after Sutter got here probably had some players being unhappy here. Z in particular saw himself as a top 4 D and wanted out. The Markstrom trade falling apart seemed like another bridge burned. Bennett was unhappy and asked for a trade under Ward. Guys like Valimaki and Phillips were pretty happy to move on.

Again I'm not sure how much of this is due to how the Flames treated a player, how a coach interacted with him, or a lack of an opportunity. I guess I'm just acknowledging the fact that any team/workplace has several players/employees unhappy at any point in time.

Name a team that doesn't have a similar list.

There are going to be players that don't get enough ice time, or don't get the contract they feel they deserve. That has nothing to do with whether a team treats its players well or not, and everything to do with the fact that there are limited roster spots and a limited amount of money (cap).

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

In general the Flames seem like an organization that treats its players better than most.

That said players don't usually throw teams under the bus. I always thought Gio had some hard feelings about the Flames not protecting him in the expansion draft. D. Hamilton didn't seem like he was a fit. I'm pretty sure Neal, and M. Smith were a bit bitter with their time in CGY. Rittich seemed heart broken when he was traded.

The mass exodus after Sutter got here probably had some players being unhappy here. Z in particular saw himself as a top 4 D and wanted out. The Markstrom trade falling apart seemed like another bridge burned. Bennett was unhappy and asked for a trade under Ward. Guys like Valimaki and Phillips were pretty happy to move on.

Again I'm not sure how much of this is due to how the Flames treated a player, how a coach interacted with him, or a lack of an opportunity. I guess I'm just acknowledging the fact that any team/workplace has several players/employees unhappy at any point in time.

Why do we say this? They treat the players like 80% of the teams in the league. They aren't better or worse than most of them.

And the teams that will just chuck you to the side when the opportunity comes - like Vegas - seem to be the team that everyone wants to play for.

Its like applauding yourself for doing the bare minimum and then bragging about it.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Why do we say this? They treat the players like 80% of the teams in the league. They aren't better or worse than most of them.

And the teams that will just chuck you to the side when the opportunity comes - like Vegas - seem to be the team that everyone wants to play for.

Its like applauding yourself for doing the bare minimum and then bragging about it.

Because it doesn't matter what trade returns are or how few series we win, as long as we have a good reputation some posters can sleep well at night.

[Niemo]

Originally Posted by Royle9

This is correct, but that was last year and now those assets are gone.
I still believe Kadri is worth a good haul, really depends on who’s the final few teams in the dance.

I get a sense that Dallas/Colorado would be his first choice(s)

Agreed. Keeping in mind that last year, Kadri was having a career year as well.
I do think Kadri returns a 1st + something insignificant with "potential" (think Miromanov). I would be happy with a 1st without retention straight up. LA's 1st would be a dream - they can even top 10 protect it this year, top 6 protect it next, top 3 next, then top 1 for all I care.

I do think that Dallas and Colorado make the most sense like you and others have pointed out. I want to add Carolina as a contender that has room and is always swinging.

I want to add that I like that Conroy respects his players, but enough is kind of enough when it starts to hurt the Flames trade returns. I'm ok with not getting the extra 4th rounder if Kadri and Coleman prefer another City, but I'd be disappointed if we chose a Grushnikov + 2nd vs a 1st again type scenario. Conroy respected Hanifin and Rasmus and....I digress.

Do you think Grushnikov still has high value to Dallas and Nill? I know that when the Tanev deal got done, it was because he was finally willing to part with Grushnikov. He talked about his character being 'elite'. 2 Years later, would Coleman (or Kadri) + Grushnikov push the return into 'must accept range' - whatever that is to Conroy?

[1991 Canadian]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

I’d be surprised to get a very significant return for Kadri. That contract term at his age is going to be a concern for any team, even if they really want him this year. Each year his contract gets to be less onerous, so hopefully his play doesn’t drop off so much that it offsets that. But I would be surprised to get anything close to a first unless there were other elements of the deal that mitigate the term on his contract.

Previous years I'd be with you, but the market for UFA centres and trade targets is thin. So if you're a team that wants an upgrade on centre, a 50-60 point 35 year old Kadri with a 3.5x$7 million contract is a decent option. I'm struggling to think of other times where the market has shifted so much that what should be boat anchor contract by this point actually has positive value. I think we're going to see some insanely overpriced UFA contracts handed out this summer.

I like Kadri, but they've gotta take advantage of the trade window they have where Kadri is still playing like a 50-60 point player. Some picks/prospects are a bonus, but freeing up $7 million in cap space in the final 1-2 years of his deal could be important.

[Niemo]

One caveat is that the longer we wait (which we have waited too long already IMO), the more options buyers have out there. 1 month ago, EP40, Zibanejad, Trochek, Robert Thomas, etc. weren't necessarily available. I think we need to brace ourselves on the return. Kadri isn't the 'hottest chick' on the block anymore - or at least he is not the only 'hot chick' on the block.

[Shazam]

Whitecloud was traded without any notice by VGK. He seems to be happy to be here.

[Enoch Root]

I agree that it would be better to strike now then to wait.

And from the buyers perspective, neither Kadri nor Coleman is going to the Olympics, so the injury argument doesn't hold. In fact, I would view it in the opposite: I would want to acquire the player prior to the Olympics, so they could use that time to acclimatize and settle, and be ready to go, from the moment the Olympics end.

[Incogneto]

I just want 2026 picks. Not 2027. Not 2028.

2026. This year.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

I just want 2026 picks. Not 2027. Not 2028.

2026. This year.

The problem is that most of the teams who might be interested have already moved their 2026 firsts.

[Enoch Root]

And they are all late firsts, so basically they are seconds

Seriously though, I think you have a better chance of the pick improving if you accept one in future years - anything can happen next year or the year after

[Niemo]

I would gauge how the other side values the picks. If they value 2026 more than 2027, then give me the 2027 with minimal protection +.

If they value 2026 more than 2027, then give me 2026 +.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Niemo

I want to add that I like that Conroy respects his players, but enough is kind of enough when it starts to hurt the Flames trade returns. I'm ok with not getting the extra 4th rounder if Kadri and Coleman prefer another City, but I'd be disappointed if we chose a Grushnikov + 2nd vs a 1st again type scenario.

Wasn't the only 1st reportedly on the table for Tanev from Edmonton, and they required us to take Ceci as well?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Unless there’s significant retention I would be surprised if the return is close to what’s being speculated in this thread.

I could see a Marchand-like return for Kadri, maybe a mid-level prospect added.

Then he probably just stays on the team

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Wasn't the only 1st reportedly on the table for Tanev from Edmonton, and they required us to take Ceci as well?

Yup, it was helping out the Oilers with cap and improving them. I’m petty but I’m fine they don’t help Edmonton lol

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Wasn't the only 1st reportedly on the table for Tanev from Edmonton, and they required us to take Ceci as well?

Ceci got traded with Granlund a year later for a 1st round pick. Would probably have turned out fine.

[Niemo]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Wasn't the only 1st reportedly on the table for Tanev from Edmonton, and they required us to take Ceci as well?

I remember reading that Colorado's was also in play. There may have been an expiring deal to take on but memory is foggy. But the point stands - Coleman and Kadri CAN pick the spot outside of their current protection allowances if returns are not far apart (is what most of us would like to see).

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Why do we say this? They treat the players like 80% of the teams in the league. They aren't better or worse than most of them.

And the teams that will just chuck you to the side when the opportunity comes - like Vegas - seem to be the team that everyone wants to play for.

Its like applauding yourself for doing the bare minimum and then bragging about it.

I say this mostly based on how situations like Kylington were handled. They were there for the player even when they could've looked into terminating that contract. Brad Larsen was a more recent example on the coaches' side.

The team also seems intent on keeping its core players happy when they pick their trade destination, arguably giving the players and agents more control than they negotiated.

[InternationalVillager]

I would be shocked if Kadri is moved prior to the Olympics break. There is no rush on this front.

I think same goes for Coleman.

[Flames1217]

​I am fully ready to temper my expectations when it comes to a return for Kadri.

​Kadri is accommodating the team here and he is being the ultimate pro. He could choose to stick around, but he is allowing Conroy to shop him to a limited number of teams. In saying this, Kadri entirely controls his fate here, and this will likely drop the return quite a bit. Salary has to essentially be even in a trade like this, so I expect the Flames to take back a bad contract.

​What I am expecting is not like the Nelson trade; I believe that the top prospect will be left out. So, something along the lines of:

​A 1st, cap dump (a significant dump here), and a C prospect similar to Wiebe for Kadri.

​If the Flames retain on Kadri for the remainder of his contract, then I expect a return similar to Nelson with the top prospect included.

​The fact of the matter is that retaining that amount for that long will really have to be worth it (around $10 million).