Flames will not succeed with Murray Edwards

[Jiri Hrdina]

I bet they thought that would be worse this year but not at the bottom of the standings, including because they didn't anticipate Wolf struggling as much as he has.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I bet that thought they would be worse this year but not at the bottom of the standings, including because they didn't anticipate Wolf struggling as much as he has.

As with you I expected regression this season because last season wasn't really sustainable with the negative goal differential and record in one goal games. The drop-off has been higher than I would anticipated but really this is kind of what I expected last season's team to be so maybe we shouldn't be too surprised. If you remove your Flames goggles and look at the roster from afar, you can make a good argument it's the least talented lineup in the NHL.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As with you I expected regression this season because last season wasn't really sustainable with the negative goal differential and record in one goal games. The drop-off has been higher than I would anticipated but really this is kind of what I expected last season's team to be so maybe we shouldn't be too surprised. If you remove your Flames goggles and look at the roster from afar, you can make a good argument it's the least talented lineup in the NHL.

And many of us said that before the puck dropped this year.

Not many upper roster players ... tough to win in a league that gets more talented and young every year.

3 top six forwards, 2 top four defensemen, and a sophomore goalie

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Another thread complaining about the Flames not rebuilding, despite the fact that they are rebuilding, and have been since Conroy became GM.

Until the remaining good vets go, it's a very Flames rebuild, one that is likely to keep the team out of top drafting positions and continue to have zero success minus the 1 good year we get every 5-10 seasons (a good year means some regular season success and maybe a single playoff series win).

Conroy is doing all he can and he's doing a pretty good job of it but, if ownership was fully committed, they certainly wouldn't still have all of Andersson, Coleman and Kadri on the roster by now - Craig isn't obtuse to the fact that these guys are making a rebuild harder, if not impossible. Like it or not it is a one toe in the water attempt at a rebuild when the entire foot needs to be in for what should be the second season of a tear down.

I don't blame anyone for 'whining' it's shameful the team is obviously still toiling with ownership not allowing a full on attempt at this for a couple of years when the alternative is results among the worst of the worst in the league. Nobody can say with any certainty that Conroy will be allowed to move these vets out this year, and keeping them rostered only continues to take the team out of true lottery contention the longer they stay and eventually just keep the elite draft talent out of the teams hands.

[Roof-Daddy]

Last years team was not as good as their record indicated, and this year's team is not as bad as the record indicates. That's why the sooner they can trade Rasmus, Kadri and Coleman the better, before they turn things around and end up drafting 10 to 15th overall instead 1 to 5th overall. They've already started turning things around lately.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I don't know how you call what Conroy is doing a rebuild with any certainty when he's only doing what a competent GM should have been doing for years - build the pipeline up and move guys that may not re-sign here before they walk. It's a very Flames rebuild, one that is likely to keep the team out of top drafting positions and continue to have zero success minus the 1 good year we get every 5-10 seasons (a good year means some regular season success and maybe a single playoff series win). Its a retool at best right now and that's simply because there are still too many decent players that wont accept what comes with a full rebuild.

Conroy is doing all he can and he's doing a pretty good job of it but, if ownership was fully committed, they certainly wouldn't still have all of Andersson, Coleman and Kadri on the roster by now. Like it or not it is a one toe in the water attempt at a rebuild when the entire foot needs to be in.

I don't blame anyone for 'whining' it's shameful the team is obviously still toiling with ownership not allowing a full on attempt at this for a couple of years when the alternative is results among the worst of the worst in the league. Nobody can say with any certainty that Conroy will be allowed to move these vets out this year, and keeping them rostered only continues to take the team out of lottery contention the longer they stay.

Every rebuild is a shade of grey isn't it?

I mean, I agree, they could be more aggressive about it, but at least the most horrifying things aren't happening ...

1) moving draft capital to get better now
2) spending to the cap to avoid sinking to the bottom

That's key to me.

I may do things differently if I had the keys, but at least they're not brain dead adding to stop the slide.

Drafting twice in the first round for at least three straight years is certainly positioning a team for the future.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The margins last season were so tight, and there were some people who stated that it won't take much for the Flames to plummet down the standings this year.


However, I don't think it is so cut and dry. I think the start to the season has been very difficult due to the schedule, but look at how this team is playing now. I think they have bounced-back to what they were last season - a hard-working team that can win if they out-compete the other side.


If this continues - and if the plan is to get a high pick - Conroy may need to make a deal sooner than later in order to slow the team down a bit. I think once anyone goes (Andersson, Kadri or Coleman) the entire team nosedives from a combination of a hole that will be difficult to fill, and killing this team's will.


The value difference between taking a less-than-ideal return on one of those players as compared to the value difference of drafting 1st overall vs 8th or 9th overall is smaller. Conroy does have full control on how the Flames end up this season. Still lots of time in the season left, so absolutely no reason to panic yet. The Flames on their own can simply run out of steam too, so I think Conroy should continue showing patience. I just think this is a move he will make well ahead of the trade deadline if the Flames are having a bit too much success this time around.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Every rebuild is a shade of grey isn't it?

I mean, I agree, they could be more aggressive about it, but at least the most horrifying things aren't happening ...

1) moving draft capital to get better now
2) spending to the cap to avoid sinking to the bottom

That's key to me.

I may do things differently if I had the keys, but at least they're not brain dead adding to stop the slide.

Drafting twice in the first round for at least three straight years is certainly positioning a team for the future.

It's not just the 1st round picks either. The Flames have picked 10 times in the first three rounds the last two drafts. Plus they already have five more for the 2026 draft with likely more to come.

[The Yen Man]

You can complain about Edwards all you want, but at the end the the day, he spends to the cap, and has ensured Flames are in Calgary long term (even if he had to bamboozle the city in to paying for part of the arena to do it).

What other Calgary billionaire do you see clamoring to be the white knight to save the Flames from Edward's evil grasp?

[TheIronMaiden]

The premise of this thread is kind of embarrassing.
It lends credence to the argument that the fans can't handle being a bottom feeder team while trying to draft high picks.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Every rebuild is a shade of grey isn't it?

I mean, I agree, they could be more aggressive about it, but at least the most horrifying things aren't happening ...

1) moving draft capital to get better now
2) spending to the cap to avoid sinking to the bottom

That's key to me.

I may do things differently if I had the keys, but at least they're not brain dead adding to stop the slide.

Drafting twice in the first round for at least three straight years is certainly positioning a team for the future.

People will be happier if they have a guy they can point to as the guy who leads the next good Flames team. Who knows about Parekh but right now they don't have that Celebrini, Carlsson, Cooley guy who you think will be the star going forward.

Think that is why the tear it down people are coming from. Having a bunch of mid/late 1st rounders is fine, but you need to hit on a star. Doesn't have to be a first rounder - Gaudreau was a late round pick who became the star in the last rebuild/retool.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Every rebuild is a shade of grey isn't it?

I mean, I agree, they could be more aggressive about it, but at least the most horrifying things aren't happening ...

1) moving draft capital to get better now
2) spending to the cap to avoid sinking to the bottom

That's key to me.

I may do things differently if I had the keys, but at least they're not brain dead adding to stop the slide.

Drafting twice in the first round for at least three straight years is certainly positioning a team for the future.

This team currently has a franchise record for players picked in the first 3 rounds of the preceding drafts in their system. After this year they will have a franchise record for the most first 3 round picks drafted in the previous 4 drafts in their system. Suspect they will end up with more than their allotted first round picks 3 round picks in the 27 and 28 drafts. Not sure how that equates to some posters saying it is the same as it has always been.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This team currently has a franchise record for players picked in the first 3 rounds of the preceding drafts in their system. After this year they will have a franchise record for the most first 3 round picks drafted in the previous 4 drafts in their system. Suspect they will end up with more than their allotted first round picks 3 round picks in the 27 and 28 drafts. Not sure how that equates to some posters saying it is the same as it has always been.

Because “some posters” ignore every aspect of reality?

A rebuild “must be announced” or it isn’t one.

Kadri, Andersson and Coleman all “must be” traded (including for a bag of pucks return) in order to tank, for a rebuild.

Flames “must” end up 32nd to “tank properly”.

All are absolutist positions and most won’t happen.

[Robbob]

Yeah, I also don't agree with the premise. To me they are doing things a lot different and I also understand that there will be probably 20 more games until a player moves.

If they ownership really wanted to continue to spend and make the playoff, the biggest UFA the Flames signed would not have been Anthony Mantha. Even signing him to that one year deal the plan was to try and flip him.

The next 20 odd games will be the same rinse and repeat for the narrative around the team unless a GM comes forward and give Conroy what he wants and that will inventively start the dominos.

[FlamesNightmare]

I think the priority is moving our good assets and pick up prospects and draft picks in return. Continue to develop our young players. Even possibly tank the season to get that McKenna pick. I trust Conroy to make the smart decisions for The Flames Organization.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And many of us said that before the puck dropped this year.

Not many upper roster players ... tough to win in a league that gets more talented and young every year.

3 top six forwards, 2 top four defensemen, and a sophomore goalie

Also players like Weegar and Wolf struggling certainly don't help a team that already has razor thin margins when it comes to winning games.

[fotze2]

Since Bingo is Murray's stooge and is his mouthpiece.

What is Murrays' view of this team going forward?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I hope a team makes an offer CC cant refuse sooner than later

And if most people like the return then its the perfect cover to justify toppling the roster and helping the mckenna spiral along.

Scooping up points at the rate they have lately will just diminish the prize at the end the seaaon. There won't be playoffs.

Its clear they still cant score at a rate that makes a playoff push a real conversation. So its either keep the band together and scrape out a finish just outside the bottom 10 for yet another round of hollow moral victories, or take the plunge and get yourself some great future pieces along the way and manage your assets in a way that you wont regret not doing in two seasons.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Since Bingo is Murray's stooge and is his mouthpiece.

What is Murrays' view of this team going forward?

I walked that back, corrected myself, apologized to Bingo and nobody else has stated as much.


Murray tho? Wish he'd spend to the cap with RCR. He hasn't made a capital investment with any of the 6 resorts, in what is it? F#%#ing ever.

Exception; Quebec splitting the $100m, with Murray to update the lifts at MSA. Poor guy needs government intervention whenever his two non-oil companies need facilities.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I bet they thought that would be worse this year but not at the bottom of the standings, including because they didn't anticipate Wolf struggling as much as he has.

Has Wolf really struggled though? I can think of a few goals he'd want back but really? This team has played like hot ass in their own zone.

Which, in fairness, was largely to be expected. And if they ship out more Dmen its going to get worse before it gets better.

Weegar has been playing like hot garbage but, I forgive that, because he's basically playing huge minutes with not a lot of help and thus is forced into trying to do too much. Again...that was largely to be expected. When you rely really heavily on one guy then that guy had better be 'Pronger/Niedermayer/Lidstrom' level good or he's gonna get exposed from time to time.

So I dont think its so much that Wolf has struggled, the whole team is struggling. I would concede that Wolf might also be trying to do too much to make saves and it takes him out of position occasionally.

Such is the nature of a rebuilding team.