Rhetzky wants to have a chat about the Captain

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cobra

You are correct he is a very average player who is a captain.

But not sure how you can ever compare him to a Cup winning captain because he has never come close.

I can compare him as a player to the type of player those teams chose. The point is that successful teams can value other characteristics in a captain.

And among defensive forwards, Backlund isn't average. He's been elite and is still very good.

You seem to be ascribing the team's record to its captain, which is a little weird. Tell me - was Iginla a good captain?

[Mr.Coffee]

Okay, yeah, Backlund works really hard. He consistently brings good effort.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Okay, yeah, Backlund works really hard. He consistently brings good effort.

Of all the criticisms being put against him, challenging his effort level is the strangest one.
Again how are you evaluating this?

[Mr.Coffee]

Watching him. Check out my other post in the other thread. We don’t need to litigate it but it’s simply a matter of if he is literally moving his body or not lol

You think he works hard. Okay. Great. Think whatever you want. How are you evaluating that he does? Because he has fancy stats? Okay, great. Maybe they could be better? Maybe they don’t tell the whole story. Do you watch him? I do, he floats around.

[CroFlames]

I think it's reasonable to want your captain to be one of your top 3 players, excluding goalie. In the Gio years, it was between him and Johnny for best player (with Gio being the clear best player when he won the Norris and should have got Hart consideration). In the Jarome years he was clearly the best.

Backlund is a shutdown C, yes. But at the same time you want some two-way game out of him too, with production.

Weegar is our best defenseman and has term on his contract. Already wears the A sometimes, so he should be the captain.

[PepsiFree]

Plenty of people had problems with Gio as the captain as well. Especially when you look at how Tkachuk was isolated.

Just because a guy is one of your top players doesn’t make him a good captain either.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Watching him. Check out my other post in the other thread. We don’t need to litigate it but it’s simply a matter of if he is literally moving his body or not lol

You think he works hard. Okay. Great. Think whatever you want. How are you evaluating that he does? Because he has fancy stats? Okay, great. Maybe they could be better? Maybe they don’t tell the whole story. Do you watch him? I do, he floats around.

Just don't see Mikael Backlund as low effort being a very popular landing spot for people that watch the games.

That is far left skinny part of the bell curve stuff.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Watching him. Check out my other post in the other thread. We don’t need to litigate it but it’s simply a matter of if he is literally moving his body or not lol

You think he works hard. Okay. Great. Think whatever you want. How are you evaluating that he does? Because he has fancy stats? Okay, great. Maybe they could be better? Maybe they don’t tell the whole story. Do you watch him? I do, he floats around.

I think stats are more reliable than watching him but yes I do both.
I see nothing that tells me it's an effort issue.
Is he slowing down? Of course. He's 36.

Effort though? I see no signs of that being the problem.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I can compare him as a player to the type of player those teams chose. The point is that successful teams can value other characteristics in a captain.

And among defensive forwards, Backlund isn't average. He's been elite and is still very good.

You seem to be ascribing the team's record to its captain, which is a little weird. Tell me - was Iginla a good captain?

But he has has no success as the captain and that is the difference.

5 points in the last 26 games when your team is in the playoff chase is very disappointing from your captain.

Yes Jarome was a great captain. Hall of Famer.
Best on ice leader Flames have ever had.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Cobra

But he has has no success as the captain and that is the difference.

5 points in the last 26 games when your team is in the playoff chase is very disappointing from your captain.

Yes Jarome was a great captain. Hall of Famer.
Best on ice leader Flames have ever had.

Were you expecting this team to have success the last couple of years? He isn't responsible for the talent level of the team.

[Yeah_Baby]

Yeah, Iggy was such a good leader that room got famously aong really well near the end of his tenure and really were all on the same page pulling in one directly.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Cobra

But he has has no success as the captain and that is the difference.

5 points in the last 26 games when your team is in the playoff chase is very disappointing from your captain.

Yes Jarome was a great captain. Hall of Famer.
Best on ice leader Flames have ever had.

This seems so odd to me.

Did you hate the Backlund named captain decision on day one knowing his best case scenario was 40 points and his worst case 25?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Yeah, Iggy was such a good leader that room got famously aong really well near the end of his tenure and really were all on the same page pulling in one directly.

No success, country club atmosphere, slow starts and would go into a lot of games needing to be “woken up” before he did anything, forced his way out to one team screwing our trade return in the process.

“Best leader ever.”

Loved Iggy and don’t stand behind those criticisms personally, but pretty funny how quickly criticisms of Backlund as captain fall apart when you apply the same level of criticisms to other captains.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This seems so odd to me.

Did you hate the Backlund named captain decision on day one knowing his best case scenario was 40 points and his worst case 25?

Rhett played with Backlund and thought he was a bad choice for captain.
I agree with him and also thought it was a bad choice.

Does not show on ice leadership qualties for me.
Near the end of line.

[Huntingwhale]

Meh, this season was supposed to be a write-off anyways, wasn't it? Didn't really care who the captain was going into the season, nor how many points said captain put up. Was supposed to be year 1 of the rebuild and a bottom 5 finish.

Instead as I type this, they are in a wildcard spot with a decent shot of making the playoffs. So, hard to be critical of Backlund when the team overall is overachieving (albeit due to Wolf). He's pretty much having the kind of season I was expecting him to have anyways (downslope of his career heading into his later 30s), but I think with the team in a playoff spot, some criticism is being applied to him.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Rhett played with Backlund and thought he was a bad choice for captain.
I agree with him and also thought it was a bad choice.

Does not show on ice leadership qualties for me.
Near the end of line.

I'm not a "captain needs to be your best player or highest scorer" guy, maybe that's just me.

I look at who is fulfilling their role to the greatest degree?

I see Backlund up there with Wolf and Weegar on the team right now.

I can't speak to the dressing room, where a captain really matters, but he's been here 14 years and we've heard nothing but glowing reports as to the human being.

So guy doing exactly what he's paid to be doing consistently, and a good guy to boot?

The only downside of naming him captain is the short duration he's likely to be in that role and continuity lost from having to name a replacement sooner.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Watching him. Check out my other post in the other thread. We don’t need to litigate it but it’s simply a matter of if he is literally moving his body or not lol

You think he works hard. Okay. Great. Think whatever you want. How are you evaluating that he does? Because he has fancy stats? Okay, great. Maybe they could be better? Maybe they don’t tell the whole story. Do you watch him? I do, he floats around.

I always wonder if “the appearance of effort” clouds it. Evaluating at Glenlake for ten years and getting better at it, looking gangbusters, swinging your arms, bad skating technique. Lidstrom looked like a lazy tit if you don’t know his resume. I recall Jordon Tootoo or Sheldon Kennedy flailing arms but were turnips in the head. Can’t stand a player who is stupid but gives that appearance of effort.

Did you see how hard Hudson worked that game? Ya and he gave it away 6 times, got 3 dumb penalties and was a minus four.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Rhett played with Backlund and thought he was a bad choice for captain.
I agree with him and also thought it was a bad choice.

Does not show on ice leadership qualties for me.
Near the end of line.

Rhett actually retired the season before Backs first game. But likely would have seen him Camp following Backs draft.

But I'm 39 now and defiantly not who I was at 18.
Saying I'm a bad leader at 39 because of who I was at 18 is kinda asinine.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cobra

But he has has no success as the captain and that is the difference.

5 points in the last 26 games when your team is in the playoff chase is very disappointing from your captain.

Yes Jarome was a great captain. Hall of Famer.
Best on ice leader Flames have ever had.

But Iggy had one year of tremedous PO success as captain (early in his tenure) and that's it. Backlund has had one and a half seasons. In a rebuild.

I agree that Iggy was a great captain. Team success as a criteria argues against it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Rhett played with Backlund and thought he was a bad choice for captain.
I agree with him and also thought it was a bad choice.

Does not show on ice leadership qualties for me.
Near the end of line.

What do on-ice leadership qualities look like to you?