[PGT] Winnipeg 5 Calgary 2

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is where I disagree. I think Vladar is 'good' but thats his ceiling. Thats where he tops out.

The problem with Vladar simply comes down to consistency and thats why he'll probably never crack the roster as an NHL starter, and its not a problem unique to him by any means.

Its simply that his average baseline play is below 'NHL Starter' range and hes inconsistent.

Some nights he can be a rockstar, other nights he's fairly steady and others he puts up a stinker. You need to have a steady baseline of 'Really Good' to be an NHL starting goaltender and I dont feel that he has that.

Now, I'm not going to base anything on last night, thats a 'forget it' game for everyone.

If he's good then why has he never been able to post a zero GSAE season? Let alone a positive one.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Forgive me for not putting a game in Seattle on a back to back in scheduled loss category. They're not a very good team.

Today was a schedule loss because of the opponent. I wasn't disappointed in the result tonight. I will be if they lose to Seattle next Sunday.

Starting against Winnipeg on the third game in four nights... feels like Vladar was set up to fail.

Coming up I hope they play Wolf Thursday and Sunday and give Vladar the easier game on Saturday night.

Plus it will be my first live Flames game in many years and I want to see Wolf play!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t think it’s silly to look at the individual plays

Should Connor be able to walk Miro like that and go bar down?
Should Backlund blindly backhand a puck (to which Vladar was square) on the tape of Appleton for an easy wide open net?
Should Vilardi be able to walk in from the top of the circle when there are no Flames within 20 feet, much less a stick length?

I’m not even saying Vladar was good, just pointing towards absolutely egregious breakdowns

Sure stats say that the chances are equal but the Jets didn’t give the Flames any really easy looks like that due to their own poor D

I really don’t find that silly at all, to be quite honest


You know teams do a lot of video. Highly doubt that the coaches liked that when they review

I agree with you in principal and wasn't that hard on him in my game story.

But the third goal was a killer, to which you tried to guilt any fan of an Iginla snipe as being disingenuous.

And goalies make high danger saves. The ones that make more are the better goalies.

It gets old.

I'm sure you'll have the same fixation on Cooley next year.

[Bingo]

Dan Vladar has the 2nd worst high danger save percentage of any goaltender with 600 or more minutes this year (64 goaltenders).

Wolf 8th best.

They are very similar in low danger save percentage.

[Ba'alzamon]

Not to put too fine a point on it, and I don't want to pile on to him, but Vladar's expected GA/60 is actually lower than Wolf's, not higher.

Vladar: 2.56 all situations, 2.28 5v5
Wolf: 2.93 all situations, 2.45 5v5

Wolf faces more high-danger shots /60, he faces more shots /60. So, according to the stats, Vladar's actually had the easier starts.

[taxbuster]

Might be an idea for the coach to give Vladar an “easy” game? ie NOT when the team is tired on a B2B, down a d-man etc. WSH on Tuesday? Let him come right back for a home game? (Or one later in the string?)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Vladar has now started or appeared in 96 NHL games since 20/21, his debut season.

Among all NHL G's since that time who have also appeared in 96 or more games, he ranks....

52 out of 55 in wins.

55 out of 55 in Save%.

42 out of 55 in GAA.

Not good but misleading. He should be compared to backups who start similar amounts. Wins is team based. So are the others to an extent.

Is he as good as Wolf? No, of course not.

Is he as good as Georgiev, or Ingram, or Lyon, or Primeau, or Forsberg? Probably.

[FBI]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Might be an idea for the coach to give Vladar an “easy” game? ie NOT when the team is tired on a B2B, down a d-man etc. WSH on Tuesday? Let him come right back for a home game? (Or one later in the string?)

Washington is the top team in the league though..

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Might be an idea for the coach to give Vladar an “easy” game? ie NOT when the team is tired on a B2B, down a d-man etc. WSH on Tuesday? Let him come right back for a home game? (Or one later in the string?)

I mean Vladar should be the #1 goalie. This is Wolf's first real season. Seems like people have already turned him into the #1.

[united]

Keep in mind this was before last night's game. And of course, difficulty/B2B is irrelevant as it relates to goals above/below expected.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not good but misleading. He should be compared to backups who start similar amounts. Wins is team based. So are the others to an extent.

Is he as good as Wolf? No, of course not.

Is he as good as Georgiev, or Ingram, or Lyon, or Primeau, or Forsberg? Probably.

How is it "misleading"?

Its a simple comparison of him against his peers who have played as many or more games.

Not sure why you would bring up Wolf....cuz he has nothing to do with it.

But since you asked....guys he is behind in save%

Lindgren, DeSmith, Allen, Kahkonen, Korpisalo, Jack Campbell, Rittich, Ingram and on and on.

In GAA,

Rittich, Talbot, Tristan Jarry, Jack Campbell, Reimer, Georgiev, etc etc

Bolded are guys not even in the league any longer.

Thats the company his numbers suggest he is keeping.

I mean....this is a 4+ year sample size now.

He is not a young guy learning the NHL game, he is 27 years old.

It's truly stunning to me how many are still trying to call him something he simply isn't and hasn't been.

At very best, he is a below average NHL back up. Why are some trying to twist things in an effort to label him anything but?

He has fundamental flaws in his game of which some have never changed. Not sure why we could expect anything different moving forward.

I was quite excited when BT brought him in....he had all the qualities that the best in the game possessed....only his did not and have not translated.

The proof is in the pudding as they say.

[Bingo]

I think when 1/3 of your starts are with a tired team in front of you there's an asterisk to the number differences between the two goaltenders.

I'd have to see a % of games on back to backs, and a situational opposition win % for all backup goaltenders to see where he ranks in difficulty of starts this season.

I know Woodley on the radio had the team playing 0.5 goals per game (expected) worse in front of Vladar than Wolf. I can't speak to his numbers.

But having said all that (pushing back the anti Vladar extreme), being 2nd worst in high danger save percentage is pretty much all you need to know.

If you give up 11.3 high danger chances a night in all situations, Vladar will give up 1.2 more goals per game than Wolf.

That's tough for a team that can't score.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Might be an idea for the coach to give Vladar an “easy” game? ie NOT when the team is tired on a B2B, down a d-man etc. WSH on Tuesday? Let him come right back for a home game? (Or one later in the string?)

Why on earth would they do that?? Vladar is done with the organization

If Vladar was worth anything he would have been traded long ago

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I mean Vladar should be the #1 goalie. This is Wolf's first real season. Seems like people have already turned him into the #1.

Sarcasm?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Vladar is awful and the Flames defense is awful. Both can be true.

Wolf is the only reason we are not a lottery team. This is a bad team being propped up by historical goaltending.

Historical? He has been very good...hes not even the best goalie in the league this year let alone "historical"

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why on earth would they do that?? Vladar is done with the organization

If Vladar was worth anything he would have been traded long ago

Not necessarily.

He has clearly been a tremendous influence on Wolf, and that should not be discounted and is worth....something.

Just not sure what that something is. If its a 5th rd pick or whatever, it may be more worthwhile to keep him and let the two G's finish the season together.

[dino7c]

I think they would move him if they could for anything...they might even waive him imo

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Vladar is awful and the Flames defense is awful. Both can be true.

Wolf is the only reason we are not a lottery team. This is a bad team being propped up by historical goaltending.

I mean, if you look at the numbers, it’s definitely not historical goaltending. It’s much more impressive because it’s Wolf’s first year in the league. He’s giving us very good goaltending. Let’s not get carried away.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sarcasm?

Nope. Going into the season clearly Vladar was the #1 goalie. Wolf was still a wildcard.

[dino7c]

Flames gave up more than double the chances in their win against the Jets vs. their loss. Anyone saying they gave up a ton last night wasnt watching or is being biased.