[Rumour] Friedman: Hanifin headed to market; Markstrom waiting

[Sandman]

I agree with Jiri, I really like the first and second round of this Draft, although it's not as good as last year. I think the third round is just ok, and then there's perhaps a big drop-off, with poor depth the rest of the way. Just my opinion, but I think there's plenty to be excited about if we end up with multiple firsts.

EDIT: Pretty much just echoed your thoughts, Freeway!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Freeway

There aren't any generational players in the 2024 class, but there's a lot of quality in the first round. It peters out a little bit after the top 20-25 from what I've been told, but the "second round" mix is pretty steady from top to bottom and players taken in the third round should still be pretty decent.

By definition there should be a generational talent once every 10 years, if at that.

I don’t think you should judge a potential draft based on a lack of one.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I’ll take your word on the D prospects as I hope that is true with the flames pick. Losing as much of our D core as we expect to trade away, getting a blue chip prospect would be a major step.

What draft would be an average draft year for top end talent then? Do you feel the top end is akin to these years?

2020 with Lafreniere, Stutzle, Guhle and Neighbors
2019 with Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Byram
2018 with Dahlin, Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi and B Tkachuk

I think it has potential to be better than the 2022 draft, which (though WAY too early to tell) isn't looking that great as of now, particularly at the top end. To me that draft looks similar to the 2012 draft, which lacks a lot of star power.

To me it compares similarly to 2020. 2019 might be a little better (largely because of Hughes) and might be a touch better than 2021.

But to me it's in the ball park of 2019-2021 and better than 2022. Not as good as 2023.

Which is why I say average to maybe above average. But probably more on the average side.

Edit: It might also compare well to 2018 because of the strength on D, though that draft is increasingly being defined by Quinn Hughes and I'm not sure there is a guy like that in this draft. But that draft looks great because of Dahlin, Hughes, Bouchard, and Dobson. The forwards are turning out to be somewaht disappointing overall. I think this draft could be similar.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by saillias

I know it's Francis and i know what he's doing, but I'm just curious why the Flames media is so interested in this "can/should we rebuild?" debate now. We all understand that in a couple weeks the 3-4 will potentially be Kylington-Pachal, and the 5-6 Gilbert-Solovyov, and the starter maybe Vladar or Wolf. It's an obsolete question now. It doesn't matter if you don't believe in rebuilds, it's happening.

I agree that this is a rebuild at this point and I also think it’s the best thing to do going forward. However, where I can see the debate as to if this stays a rebuild will be in the offseason. My hope is that the flames don’t go hunting for any big signings this summer and instead sticks to the plan of getting younger and building through the draft - that’s a rebuild IMO. Where management could stray from the rebuild concept is if they instantly try to get better next year by signing someone like Stevenson or Reinhart to a massive deal. I know it’s highly unlikely guys like that will want to come here but Treliving often got free agents to sign with Calgary by overpaying for them so it’s not impossible. Calgary will have the cap space to do something like that but I really hope they don’t.

The good thing is that Conroy so far has shown that he does not want to overspend on guys to convince them to sign. He has made fair market value offers and if that’s not enough, he is willing to move on. Very different from Treliving who, if he was still here, would no doubt be planning to sign 30-year-old UFA Stevenson to an $8 million x 7 years deal because he “knows how to win” and “plays the right way”. Following in the footsteps of Troy Brouwer and James Neal who were fresh of a couple years of performing well on playoff teams only to instantly become awful signings for the flames.

[memphusk]

They won't go hunting for a name. I can see some short signings with a bit of overpayment. Maybe a Dumba or something along those lines. I get that feeling that Conroy and Iginla are looking for some grit also. In my eyes this is going to be a fun change.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

By definition there should be a generational talent once every 10 years, if at that.

I don’t think you should judge a potential draft based on a lack of one.

I had never heard the word generational until I started reading hockey message boards.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by memphusk

They won't go hunting for a name. I can see some short signings with a bit of overpayment. Maybe a Dumba or something along those lines. I get that feeling that Conroy and Iginla are looking for some grit also. In my eyes this is going to be a fun change.

I would be fine with a move like that as I don’t think Dumba will demand much in free agency in term or AAV. Plus he is from here so it could be a good fit as a filler till the prospects on defence are ready to step into bigger roles. Just would not look to instantly turn this team back into a playoff team through paying big money on long contracts to older players in free agency.

[stemit14]

Can anyone with good knowledge of the prospects in the upcoming draft and the players picked in last year’s draft speculate on where they think some of the top players in this draft would have gone if they were in the 2023 draft class? Strictly based on the pre-draft seasons of the 2023 prospects and the 2024 prospects. Would Celebrini be in the top 4 of last years’ draft? Top 6? Would anyone else from the current rankings of the 2024 draft crack the top 10 of the 2023 draft?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Can anyone with good knowledge of the prospects in the upcoming draft and the players picked in last year’s draft speculate on where they think some of the top players in this draft would have gone if they were in the 2023 draft class? Strictly based on the pre-draft seasons of the 2023 prospects and the 2024 prospects. Would Celebrini be in the top 4 of last years’ draft? Top 6? Would anyone else from the current rankings of the 2024 draft crack the top 10 of the 2023 draft?

Celebrini would be right there with Fantilli and Carlsson and I would say Levshunov would have been the 1st Dman taken and I think he'll be this year.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I had never heard the word generational until I started reading hockey message boards.

Over time the categories have changed At one point ‘star’ was the top, but soon a new category of ‘superstar’ was added at the top end to be succeeded eventually by ‘generational’. Inflation isn’t only a problem at the gas station; hockey hype is similar.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Celebrini would be right there with Fantilli and Carlsson and I would say Levshunov would have been the 1st Dman taken and I think he'll be this year.

I would say any of the top 3 dmen in this draft are better than the best dman in the last draft. Outside of Celebrini and the Russian kid (who would both be somewhere between 2-5 last year) the top forwards in this draft would be between the 6-10th best forwards in the last draft.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Totally fair comment hhaa. Crap, I'm old. Using the word 'recent' was probably the wrong choice by me too, as I left out the actual recent ones given we don't quite know how they'll turn out. I'm dumb.

That escalated quickly!

Nah that logic makes perfect sense.

And now I've made everyone feel old. Sorry guys!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Getting three guys who can play in the NHL out of this draft could easily be as important to the team as the draft where they’re able to snag a truly elite talent.

Klimchuk and Poirier never being able to even crack the lineup was a real blow.

Let's not forget that in his D+1 season, Poirier was looking like a steal, and then he followed that up with a stellar AHL rookie campaign. Poirier's career was derailed by off-ice chaos, and if not for this; if he had the opportunity to develop into the player the Flames scouts thought they were getting, I think Poirier could have been a NHL star.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Over time the categories have changed At one point ‘star’ was the top, but soon a new category of ‘superstar’ was added at the top end to be succeeded eventually by ‘generational’. Inflation isn’t only a problem at the gas station; hockey hype is similar.

I think maybe that Sydney Crosby was the first "generational" player heading into the 2005 Draft. The term was used then to distinguish him as the most gifted player since Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemiux; the sort of player that comes around only once in a generation.

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[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Over time the categories have changed At one point ‘star’ was the top, but soon a new category of ‘superstar’ was added at the top end to be succeeded eventually by ‘generational’. Inflation isn’t only a problem at the gas station; hockey hype is similar.

Not to mention “franchise,” which originally meant a player so impactful on and off the ice that he could turn a franchise’s fortunes around (ie Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, Brodeur) and today means the best player at his position on a team.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by memphusk

They won't go hunting for a name. I can see some short signings with a bit of overpayment. Maybe a Dumba or something along those lines. I get that feeling that Conroy and Iginla are looking for some grit also. In my eyes this is going to be a fun change.

There are going to be some gaps that they are going to have to fill with free agents to feild a team. Especially if both Tanev and Hanifin leave. If Anderson also leaves it would absolutely be a requirement.

Probably need a center as well unless they think Sharongovich is cutting it.

I get the wanting to be crappy part. But it’s probably also not a good idea to completely throw young players who aren’t ready to the wolves and ruin them.

Unless they are getting younger serviceable players back in the trades I can see 2 or 3 journeymen being signed in the offseason.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think maybe that Sydney Crosby was the first "generational" player heading into the 2005 Draft. The term was used then to distinguish him as the most gifted player since Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemiux; the sort of player that comes around only once in a generation.

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Lindros.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Not to mention “franchise,” which originally meant a player so impactful on and off the ice that he could turn a franchise’s fortunes around (ie Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, Brodeur) and today means the best player at his position on a team.

Though the term generational really started with Crosby, I think it was retroactively assigned to a few players. Over the last 45 years, I would say the players perceived to be “generational” when they were about to enter the NHL were Gretzky, Lemieux, Lindros, Crosby, McDavid and Bedard. That list, IMO fits the hype and skill associated with those players before entering the league. Also, the timing of each one entering the NHL is pretty evenly spread out to assign each one to a generation with the exception of maybe Lemieux and Gretzky. Outside of those two, these “generational” players come into the league around once every 10 years. All of those players dominated the NHL in some way for some some period of time as well… obviously Lindros ran into serious injuries that derailed his career but for a time, he was perceived as one of if not the best player in the game.

That’s not to say there weren’t other players along the way that were close to the same hype as those players before entering the league (I feel like Ovechkin could be on this list).

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Not sure if it’s a Canadian bias, but I thought the expectations around Daigle seemed to have reached that high level of buzz and conversation as well.

My memory may be faulty, but he wasn’t talked about as just another first overall.

[liamenator]

^^^ Definitely. The hype around Daigle was "generational"