Carter Hart granted indefinite leave of absence

[Heavy Jack]

That’s painted most with a pretty broad brush though; I think it’s a profession where you really do need to look at and consider the individual. In general people can suck no matter what the profession or walk of life they’re in so I tend to look at individuals. Iggy for example is a guy who has set himself apart from the norm in his profession and has truly used his platform to better himself as well as his community and I can 100 percent understand why people and fans would fawn over that kind of character. Then you have Evander Kane up north and I don’t understand the fawning but then again I don’t really understand Edmontonians lol.

[sureLoss]

Fwiw

https://twitter.com/user/status/1750161786915971159

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Fwiw

https://twitter.com/user/status/1750161786915971159

I’m not a pitchfork guy but that’s a huge misleading tweet. Key being NHL investigation. The NHL wouldn’t be investigating. It would be PR press issue when the news comes down of the Hockey Canada investigation.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

That’s painted most with a pretty broad brush though; I think it’s a profession where you really do need to look at and consider the individual. In general people can suck no matter what the profession or walk of life they’re in so I tend to look at individuals. Iggy for example is a guy who has set himself apart from the norm in his profession and has truly used his platform to better himself as well as his community and I can 100 percent understand why people and fans would fawn over that kind of character. Then you have Evander Kane up north and I don’t understand the fawning but then again I don’t really understand Edmontonians lol.

Iggy is likely more the exception than the norm. Simply put most players have been coddled, sucked up to, and given everything they wanted growing up being good athletes. It’s a broad brush for sure but go out on a night with them and you’ll see entitled youths at work. Boomer out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I’m not a pitchfork guy but that’s a huge misleading tweet. Key being NHL investigation. The NHL wouldn’t be investigating. It would be PR press issue when the news comes down of the Hockey Canada investigation.

The NHL investigated as well.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

It boggles my mind that these players wouldn't have been suspended with pay in August. Knowingly having gang rapists on your team is a bad look.

When the said player is a 4th line player on a non-playoff team and you just got $700m in public money...why you'd continue to dress such a player would be unfathomable. There's actually zero reason to do so. Very stupid behavior on the flames if they knew Dube is one of the rapists and kept him around the team and playing games.

With regard to the first paragraph currently there are only allegations and even then clearly none specifically tagged to players publicly yet, so that would be inappropriate to treat people as guilty of something they are not even currently alleged to have done.

With regard to the second paragraph there's probably a whole can of worms optically for the organization to treat Dube the way you suggested in light of the above point when the son of the CSEC president & CEO also falls into the same group of players on the 2018 WJC team.

And his father, John, serves as chief operating officer of the NHL's Calgary Flames.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...e87751007.html

Jake Bean, Carter Hart, Colton Point, Kale Clague, Jordan Kyrou, Taylor Raddysh
Toronto lawyer Scott Fenton wrote to Global News at the time that his firm represents one of these players and that he consulted with counsel for the other players. He declined to identify that player. He told Global:

"None of the players you reference engaged in any wrongdoing, all of the players co-operated fully with the independent London Police Service investigation in 2018, and all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/players-stat...2018-1.6597503

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The NHL investigated as well.

Yup. Meant that the NHL wouldn’t be investigating at this stage.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

With regard to the first paragraph currently there are only allegations and even then clearly none specifically tagged to players publicly yet, so that would be inappropriate to treat people as guilty of something they are not even currently alleged to have done.

With regard to the second paragraph there's probably a whole can of worms optically for the organization to treat Dube the way you suggested in light of the above point when the son of the CSEC president & CEO also falls into the same group of players on the 2018 WJC team.



https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...e87751007.html



https://www.cbc.ca/news/players-stat...2018-1.6597503

Oh wow. First time hearing their father and son. Who knew?

[stang]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Well if connected these players probably are in mental hell with the remorse and embarrassment (and rightfully so), so technically it's not untrue, as cowardly as would be.

It's unlikely Perry gives a flying #### and is only publicly remorseful because the Hawks didn't put up with it and outed him for his behaviour. The oilers playing that angle is outright pathetic.

Their questions should've been around taking accountability, not showering him with sympathetic treatment or like a mouthpiece for those that suffer with mental illness. They essentially made a mockery of the real thing like what you saw down here with Kylington (on the same day).

I'd be embarrassed by that display if I was an oiler fan.

If this is true (like you said)

You're defending a person who along with 4-7 other hockey buddies gang raped and intimidated with golf clubs a woman over the course of a night 6 years ago. Who tried to hush it up, and who never had a single mental health issue with it for 6 whole years until the 3 days before hes arrested. And dont tell me the Flames didnt know about this looming over him because thats bull####. So now the Flames would be (again IF true) trying to use Mental Health as a cover for why hes gone. (Philly didnt use the mental health excuse) Oh this must have been so hard on these poor rapists over the last 6 years.

Then trying to use this as a Flames Vs Oilers and why the Oilers should be embarrased? Pull your head out of your ass. This is way bigger then some petty Oilers vs Flames bullspit. Its not funny either.

Again if true.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by stang

If this is true (like you said)

You're defending a person who along with 4-7 other hockey buddies gang raped and intimidated with golf clubs a woman over the course of a night 6 years ago. Who tried to hush it up, and who never had a single mental health issue with it for 6 whole years until the 3 days before hes arrested. And dont tell me the Flames didnt know about this looming over him because thats bull####. So now the Flames would be (again IF true) trying to use Mental Health as a cover for why hes gone. (Philly didnt use the mental health excuse) Oh this must have been so hard on these poor rapists over the last 6 years.

Then trying to use this as a Flames Vs Oilers and why the Oilers should be embarrased? Pull your head out of your ass. This is way bigger then some petty Oilers vs Flames bullspit. Its not funny either.

Again if true.

I’m not excusing the Flames but is it possible the Flames knew about the allegations against him, but he came to the team saying he needed mental time away, and the team not knowing an announcement was imminent, granted him time away? Who knows. Could be either way but I don’t think any team is now interested in covering up for a non-star player. I’d guess he came to them and said he needed time away. Guessing the team isn’t too happy if he said mental issues, and this is the real reason.

[cam_calderon]

nm, just saw the other thread. We will know soon whether Dube was involved or not.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

It boggles my mind that these players wouldn't have been suspended with pay in August. Knowingly having gang rapists on your team is a bad look.

When the said player is a 4th line player on a non-playoff team and you just got $700m in public money...why you'd continue to dress such a player would be unfathomable. There's actually zero reason to do so. Very stupid behavior on the flames if they knew Dube is one of the rapists and kept him around the team and playing games.

On what grounds would they be suspended prior to any actual legal action or charges? The PA wouldn't allow for that.
There is a process for these things for a reason. You follow the process. That's why its there.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I’m not excusing the Flames but is it possible the Flames knew about the allegations against him, but he came to the team saying he needed mental time away, and the team not knowing an announcement was imminent, granted him time away? Who knows. Could be either way but I don’t think any team is now interested in covering up for a non-star player. I’d guess he came to them and said he needed time away. Guessing the team isn’t too happy if he said mental issues, and this is the real reason.

Carter Hart doing the exact same thing tells me this was a coordinated move on behalf of the NHL.

[stang]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I’m not excusing the Flames but is it possible the Flames knew about the allegations against him, but he came to the team saying he needed mental time away, and the team not knowing an announcement was imminent, granted him time away? Who knows. Could be either way but I don’t think any team is now interested in covering up for a non-star player. I’d guess he came to them and said he needed time away. Guessing the team isn’t too happy if he said mental issues, and this is the real reason.

Nothings happening yet so we don't know.

I am pissed that Djsflames, or Trent whatever is trying to spin a gang rape as some mental health advocate, while a guy going to councelling for alcohol os some big time embarassment, and doing so is very much minimizing what these 5-8 players have done.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Carter Hart doing the exact same thing tells me this was a coordinated move on behalf of the NHL.

The NHL would want to distance themselves from this IMO. They’ve been exposed before on things and would not want to cover anything up for these guys. So I think each of the two clubs did this independently when each respective guy came to them. If a player came up to you and said they needed time off for mental health, what are they going to question? I don’t think it’s a conspiracy when the NHL has everything to lose by covering it up.

Originally Posted by stang

Nothings happening yet so we don't know.

I am pissed that Djsflames, or Trent whatever is trying to spin a gang rape as some mental health advocate, while a guy going to councelling for alcohol os some big time embarassment, and doing so is very much minimizing what these 5-8 players have done.

No comment. Once more facts come out we’ll see who falls into what situation.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by stang

Nothings happening yet so we don't know.

I am pissed that Djsflames, or Trent whatever is trying to spin a gang rape as some mental health advocate, while a guy going to councelling for alcohol os some big time embarassment, and doing so is very much minimizing what these 5-8 players have done.

Perry never entered the Players Assistance program.

But the timing of Edmonton is no good posts isn't really funny in this situation.

[stang]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Perry never entered the Players Assistance program.

But the timing of Edmonton is no good posts isn't really funny in this situation.

You dont have to enter the player assistance program to be getting help. There are tons of other resources out there. Plus he didnt even have an NHL contract when he went to councelling.

[stang]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

**IF** true (yet to be determined), what's worse

These players using mental health as a cover, or Edmonton and Perry using mental health as a cover?

Originally Posted by bluejays

No comment. Once more facts come out we’ll see who falls into what situation.

I agree wait till facts. However he wanted to play the "IF TRUE" game. And its disgusting.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

With regard to the first paragraph currently there are only allegations and even then clearly none specifically tagged to players publicly yet, so that would be inappropriate to treat people as guilty of something they are not even currently alleged to have done.

With regard to the second paragraph there's probably a whole can of worms optically for the organization to treat Dube the way you suggested in light of the above point when the son of the CSEC president & CEO also falls into the same group of players on the 2018 WJC team.



https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...e87751007.html



https://www.cbc.ca/news/players-stat...2018-1.6597503

After reading the article it seems the only players to not, either through themselves or a representative, completely deny being involved are Formenton, Katchouk, McLeod and Batherson.

Given the reports that 5 guys from the team were involved some are not being honest.

Forementon and McLeod are the only two out of those 4 to be granted a leave of absence by their professional teams.

This will be out in the open soon enough but I wonder if some people we are speculating are witnesses but not involved directly?

I guess what I am saying is none of us know for sure until the report comes out. Although, its hard to not assume that Forementon was at the very least involved.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

With regard to the first paragraph currently there are only allegations and even then clearly none specifically tagged to players publicly yet, so that would be inappropriate to treat people as guilty of something they are not even currently alleged to have done.

I said this in the other thread, but the standard for a workplace investigation is typically lower than 'guilty'. You typically only have to believe that an issue occurred on a balance of probabilities rather than beyond a reasonable doubt.

And even without that, organizations suspend individuals w/ pay all the time pending a full investigation so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that.