Flames announce 23/24 opening day roster

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I'm not advocating giving the starting job based on AHL shooters. I am saying the sample size of 2 lights out seasons in NHLs best developmental league is a much better measure than a couple of preseason games.

Except ‘the NHL's best developmental league’ is exactly where you find those AHL shooters. Wolf's sample against NHL competition consists of this year's camp plus one NHL game in garbage time last year.

Honestly, the preseason is kind of an awful way to make roster decisions.

That's why you go with the players who have already proved themselves at the NHL level, unless a prospect blows your socks off in camp… which Wolf hasn't.

But thats for another day. Also, I am not necessarily advocating Wolf be the starter. I just think it is a waste of time burying him in the AHL against inferior competition.

Which goalie do you want to lose on waivers instead? And what happens if you pick the wrong one?

You can either jump the gun and make that decision based on training camp, or you can keep your options open and send Wolf down.


EDIT: Markstrom has his NMC, so you have to send down Vladar (who probably wouldn't clear waivers) or Wolf (who is waiver-exempt). Makes the decision even more clear-cut.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Still not going to say Markstrom cost us the entire season he wasn't great but he wasn't the reason we missed the playoffs.

It's obvious that the new coach was on the staff saw something wrong in how we defended allowing grade a chances usually as the first shot on net.

Markstrom can be better yes he let him some bad goals but the Flames stunk at defending in their own zone a lot.

That's true. The Flames signed Markstrom because his strengths as a goalie fitted neatly with the defensive system they intended to play. He was very good with the outside shots and not giving up rebounds. Not so good at the 10-bell chances from close in, especially if he hadn't seen any rubber to get him in the game; but the Flames' defence was supposed to box out attackers and keep those chances to a minimum.

Instead, last year the Flames were pressing too hard in the offensive zone, trying to generate shot volume. Each low-danger shot that they took was an opportunity for the other team to get possession of the puck, and all too often, they were off to the races for a breakaway. Instead of playing to Markstrom's strengths, the team was setting up opponents to cash in on his weaknesses.

Mind you, no goalie can handle breakaways or cross-seam deflections every time; that's why they are high-danger chances, after all. Vladar looked bad for largely the same reasons. I doubt whether any other goalie would have looked much better the way the team was playing.

By the way, and nothing to do with you, Paulie:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

1.5 years of Markstrom being absolutely one of the worst goalies in the whole league (statistically and visually).

Yup, Markstrom sucked for a year and a half straight. Because the Dallas series in '22 never happened.

This sort of thing is why some posters on this site just aren't worth paying attention to. They come in with their minds made up and ignore any fact, no matter how obvious, that doesn't fit their narrative.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Except ‘the NHL's best developmental league’ is exactly where you find those AHL shooters. Wolf's sample against NHL competition consists of this year's camp plus one NHL game in garbage time last year.



That's why you go with the players who have already proved themselves at the NHL level, unless a prospect blows your socks off in camp… which Wolf hasn't.



Which goalie do you want to lose on waivers instead? And what happens if you pick the wrong one?

You can either jump the gun and make that decision based on training camp, or you can keep your options open and send Wolf down.


EDIT: Markstrom has his NMC, so you have to send down Vladar (who probably wouldn't clear waivers) or Wolf (who is waiver-exempt). Makes the decision even more clear-cut.

So Wolf needs to go down because he hasn't proven himself at the NHL level. But if he goes down, he still can't prove himself. Some circular logic there. He has proven himself at every level since he was drafted. The organization desperately needs some quality goaltending. Seems they should be making Wolf their core not burying him because its convenient.

As for roster management, Markstrom isn't going anywhere, but that is fine. Let him be the veteran mentor to Wolf. That is why I'd love to see him up even if he isn't starting as much as he would in the AHL. He can learn from a veteran. And in my vision, as the season goes on he would take over more of the starts and hopefully end up with a pretty solid workload.

What does that mean for Vladar? Trade him for anything. If there are no takers at any level, waive him and roll the dice. Does that mean he could leave and an asset would be lost? Sure. But that is the chance you take to get your best prospect in the league. The pros and cons to me would be getting your best prospect the best development path vs losing a player you gave up a small to medium asset for. (side note, considering that 3rd round pick netted the Flames 50 games played, it really would be like giving up a 3rd for a 'rental') Odds are 50 games is more than Ben MacDonald will ever play.

[Bingo]

I think I'd be a lot more upset about Wolf getting cut if I thought he'd spend the entire season in the AHL without starting any NHL games ... and even that wouldn't be the end of the world to be honest.

But what if we are talking about 6 weeks here?

Really worth the panic?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's true. The Flames signed Markstrom because his strengths as a goalie fitted neatly with the defensive system they intended to play. He was very good with the outside shots and not giving up rebounds. Not so good at the 10-bell chances from close in, especially if he hadn't seen any rubber to get him in the game; but the Flames' defence was supposed to box out attackers and keep those chances to a minimum.

Instead, last year the Flames were pressing too hard in the offensive zone, trying to generate shot volume. Each low-danger shot that they took was an opportunity for the other team to get possession of the puck, and all too often, they were off to the races for a breakaway. Instead of playing to Markstrom's strengths, the team was setting up opponents to cash in on his weaknesses.

Mind you, no goalie can handle breakaways or cross-seam deflections every time; that's why they are high-danger chances, after all. Vladar looked bad for largely the same reasons. I doubt whether any other goalie would have looked much better the way the team was playing.

By the way, and nothing to do with you, Paulie:



Yup, Markstrom sucked for a year and a half straight. Because the Dallas series in '22 never happened.

This sort of thing is why some posters on this site just aren't worth paying attention to. They come in with their minds made up and ignore any fact, no matter how obvious, that doesn't fit their narrative.

Markstrom probably won us the Dallas series especially when we gave up a was it 2 or 3-1 to start OT.

He was bad vs Edmonton no doubt.

He could have been better last season, but the team hugging the boards in the offensive zone and leaving the middle of the ice wide open for them to skate right in for odd man rushes, breakaways for the first shot on net is going to make any goalie look like crap.

Chasing the play and player to the board in the defensive zone didn't help much either leaving the middle of the ice wide open again, often times with a second pressure coming to the board battle for no reason.

Calling him the worst goalie for 1.5 years is extreme, he wasn't even the worst goalie in our division. Seattle and LA made the playoffs with worse goaltending.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dobbles

So Wolf needs to go down because he hasn't proven himself at the NHL level. But if he goes down, he still can't prove himself. Some circular logic there. He has proven himself at every level since he was drafted. The organization desperately needs some quality goaltending. Seems they should be making Wolf their core not burying him because its convenient.

As for roster management, Markstrom isn't going anywhere, but that is fine. Let him be the veteran mentor to Wolf. That is why I'd love to see him up even if he isn't starting as much as he would in the AHL. He can learn from a veteran. And in my vision, as the season goes on he would take over more of the starts and hopefully end up with a pretty solid workload.

What does that mean for Vladar? Trade him for anything. If there are no takers at any level, waive him and roll the dice. Does that mean he could leave and an asset would be lost? Sure. But that is the chance you take to get your best prospect in the league. The pros and cons to me would be getting your best prospect the best development path vs losing a player you gave up a small to medium asset for. (side note, considering that 3rd round pick netted the Flames 50 games played, it really would be like giving up a 3rd for a 'rental') Odds are 50 games is more than Ben MacDonald will ever play.

1. Yes, there is the chance for Wolf to CONTINUE proving himself by picking up from where he left off in the AHL.
2. Yes, the Flames need quality goaltending this year, which is absolutely what should be expected from Markstrom and Vladar.
3. Yes, Wolf is clearly part of the Flames core and an integral part of their plans for the future, but he IS NOT being "buried" in the AHL. The team plays and practices in the same building as the Flames, and they can move him back and forth from one roster to the other with it having no tangible impact on his day-to-day.
4. Yes, Wolf will have the benefit of learning from a veteran like Markstrom, even if he is not technically on the Flames roster. Being "on the team" ahead of opening day is virtually meaningless for a guy like him who knows that he will get plenty of opportunities as the season plays out.
5. NO. Moving Vladar today for nothing is a terrible way for the Flames to manage the situation. If Markstrom is injured tonight and then out for the season the Flames would be staring down a black hole of Wolf and Oskar Dansk as their goaltending tandem. Why would they possibly open themselves up to that disaster if they do not have to? The concerns about any negative impact starting the season in the AHL might have on Dustin Wolf are dramatically overblown. He's 22-years-old. He will be just fine, even if he neds up playing only a few NHL games this year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dobbles

So Wolf needs to go down because he hasn't proven himself at the NHL level. But if he goes down, he still can't prove himself. Some circular logic there.

Wolf goes down because somebody has to go down and he's the only one who can. What part of this do you not understand?