It's Sutter's system. It's Lucic. It's the goaltending. It's Treliving. It's the coach. Just give him time. Yadda yadda yadda yadda.
Must have hurt falling off the bandwagon.
So we'll sell off all the good player; overpay the hotshots and start over again to mediocracy. Yadda, yadda, yadda. And the fans will hope for next year.
And Centre Ice doesn't even carry all the Flames games anyway. Life is the pits.
I look at a guy like Erik Karlsson and think we will be ok with Huberdeau.
Coach should be on the hot seat and GM. This team has good pieces but just isn't good enough. I still think next year can be a good year, just need to start the process now. Sell!
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The Flames did it under Ward, Peters, and Gulutzan. Sutter definitely coaches it now, but it seems to be a style of hockey that the Calgary Flames organization seems to believe in.
The big common theme during this era of Flames hockey is that the team isn’t built for success.
I’m not hanging problems on the coach anymore (although he’s certainly not helping). There’s a way to build a good NHL hockey team, and the Flames haven’t gone through the process of giving themselves a good chance at doing it - so this is what we get.
Peters had the #2 team in goals for and Sutter #6. Both teams got smoked in the playoffs for whatever reason and the season after the team look like complete ass.
Something has changed after high offensive seasons in the organization causing is to regress back into a plodding team that can't score.
I've said it's systems mostly but I never meant it was Sutter's fault. It's just a bad fit for Huberdeau. We all know Sutter has and can win in this league. But the truth probably in the end is that neither is willing/able to change at this point (certainly not Sutter and why would he) but the coach is easier to move that a player who just signed an eight year, 84 million dollar deal.
Unless there is some evil plot twist where Sutter is made the GM in the off season and he will pay heaven and earth to move Huberdeau sinking any rebuild hopes even deeper.
The problem is, even if Darryl changed his tactics and played rope-a-dope hockey for Huberdeau’s sake, the rest of the roster wouldn’t be comfortable playing that style. The majority of this roster is built for Darryl’s checking style, so they’d be effectively opening things up for one guy while letting, the rest of the team would suffer. I think I even heard Derek Wills say the Flames lead the league in odd man rushes chances and yet, where are the odd man rush goals?
Ultimately, this is just a poorly built roster at this point in time. Lots of aging, expensive players that other teams didn’t want, players who don’t gel and want to play different systems. We’re just another example of why GMs should build through the draft.
But yeah, losing two top-10 players in the league should have sent the team into a rebuild. It didn’t.
Also, having your goalie go from Vezina quality to bottom of the barrel is also a way to sink a team. That’s not on Huby, Weegar, or Kadri.
The team last year wasn't good enough to make the conference finals, but by most standards, you could consider it a very successful team. Only 5 teams scored more goals than the Flames last year.
The goaltending issue this season is a fair point of course. Markstrom has easily cost this team at least 10 points in the standings. With adequate goaltending, this team could easily be in a playoff position right now even with Huberdeau being a non-factor. The fact we aren't in a playoff position and are falling back further just really makes the Huberdeau situation stand out that much more. We'd still be disappointed with how it is turning out, but we wouldn't be talking about it as much.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
It worked pretty good last season. The cast is what changed. It's pretty obvious what changed is what the problem is.
It worked for one line last season. The rest of the team shot 6.23% and were negative goal differential at 5v5.
Sutter's system can work...but LA's teams had similar issues at times. Goals at 5v5 were hard to come by, and if goaltending faltered it would be a struggle.
The consistent though is abysmal shooting percentage at 5v5
Look at Sutter's 5v5 stats in LA and Calgary
11-12: 40-27-15 Won Cup
52.7% xGF, 6.05% Shooting %, .929 SV%
2013: 27-16-5 Lost in Round 3
54.9% xGF, 7.54% Shooting, .915 SV%
2013-2014: 46-28-8 Won Cup
55.5% xGF, 6.6% Shooting, .935 SV%
So the team at 5v5 is very much a Darryl Sutter team at 5v5. Strong expected goals and poor shooting percentage. The thing that is actually very unlike a Sutter team at 5v5 is the save percentage which is abysmal.
The highest point total anybody in LA had in the 5 full seasons under Sutter was Kopitar with 74 points. He had 92 points the first year after Sutter and 81 before Sutter. In his last season with Sutter he had 52 points in 76 games (Interesting enough Huberdeau is on pace for 55).
The offensive production from the top line under Sutter last year was a complete outlier and anamoly for a Darryl Sutter run team. Honestly it would have been interesting to see them run it back to see if it would have happened again - since its a compete outlier for a Sutter coached team.
As for Huberdeau...I honestly think he might actually just be so focused on defensive hockey and the system that he's thinking too much on the ice. However his underlying stats almost perfectly mirror what you see on Sutter run teams.
XGF%: 54.33%
xGF per 60: 2.56
xGA per 60: 2.15 (2nd lowest to Backlund on the team)
High Danger Chances Against per 60: 8.96 (lowest on the team)
Shooting Percentage: 7.60%
Save Percentage: .929 (by far the best on the team)
For a team that many have said have been plagued by giving up too many high danger chances, and that has led to the poor goaltending...not for Huberdeau.
Defensively he's given up the least on the team. Near the lowest xGA, second lowest GA per 60, lowest high danger chances, and highest save percentage. It literally is a carbon copy of Sutter's results in LA and Calgary. Super low event hockey with strong defensive metrics.
Huberdeau might deserve the Selke. He has shut down more offense than any other player this year - both his own and his oppositions offense.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 02-09-2023 at 11:58 PM.
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Sutter is a relic, a dinosaur. He's a coach signing you make in NHL 23 as a larf. This team should be fighting for top in the pacific, not stuck in the mud.
It worked for one line last season. The rest of the team shot 6.23% and were negative goal differential at 5v5.
Sutter's system can work...but LA's teams had similar issues at times. Goals at 5v5 were hard to come by, and if goaltending faltered it would be a struggle.
The consistent though is abysmal shooting percentage at 5v5
Look at Sutter's 5v5 stats in LA and Calgary
11-12: 40-27-15 Won Cup
52.7% xGF, 6.05% Shooting %, .929 SV%
2013: 27-16-5 Lost in Round 3
54.9% xGF, 7.54% Shooting, .915 SV%
2013-2014: 46-28-8 Won Cup
55.5% xGF, 6.6% Shooting, .935 SV%
So the team at 5v5 is very much a Darryl Sutter team at 5v5. Strong expected goals and poor shooting percentage. The thing that is actually very unlike a Sutter team at 5v5 is the save percentage which is abysmal.
The highest point total anybody in LA had in the 5 full seasons under Sutter was Kopitar with 74 points. He had 92 points the first year after Sutter and 81 before Sutter. In his last season with Sutter he had 52 points in 76 games (Interesting enough Huberdeau is on pace for 55).
The offensive production from the top line under Sutter last year was a complete outlier and anamoly for a Darryl Sutter run team. Honestly it would have been interesting to see them run it back to see if it would have happened again - since its a compete outlier for a Sutter coached team.
As for Huberdeau...I honestly think he might actually just be so focused on defensive hockey and the system that he's thinking too much on the ice. However his underlying stats almost perfectly mirror what you see on Sutter run teams.
XGF%: 54.33%
xGF per 60: 2.56
xGA per 60: 2.15 (2nd lowest to Backlund on the team)
High Danger Chances Against per 60: 8.96 (lowest on the team)
Shooting Percentage: 7.60%
Save Percentage: .929 (by far the best on the team)
For a team that many have said have been plagued by giving up too many high danger chances, and that has led to the poor goaltending...not for Huberdeau.
Defensively he's given up the least on the team. Near the lowest xGA, second lowest GA per 60, lowest high danger chances, and highest save percentage. It literally is a carbon copy of Sutter's results in LA and Calgary. Super low event hockey with strong defensive metrics.
Huberdeau might deserve the Selke. He has shut down more offense than any other player this year - both his own and his oppositions offense.
Look at those save % he needed to ride into cups and even with Kipper setting modern day records.
Making a career out of crazy goaltending and talking yourself up like a offensive genius with 1 great offensive year.
Starting to really believe Sutter is in Maurice country and one of the most overrated coaches in NHL history.
Bowman won cups with Osgood
Quenville won with Neimi
come on now the save percentages had a lot to do with the systems deployed too
For sure.
But there is something that happened in that Oliers series last year that has been broken with the defense and goaltending since.
Don't know if Oilers exposed something in the system and quick and speedy teams have been able to take advantage of since but it surely hasnt has been as stingy as Sutter teams have been in the past, especially in transition with odd man rushes.
But there is something that happened in that Oliers series last year that has been broken with the defense and goaltending since.
Don't know if Oilers exposed something in the system and quick and speedy teams have been able to take advantage of since but it surely hasnt has been as stingy as Sutter teams have been in the past, especially in transition with odd man rushes.
What happened was that the team lost two All-Star level players and replaced them with Huberdeau and Kadri. No offense to either player, but they are not in the same league as those guys who drew so much attention from the other teams, created a lethal PP, and gave this team leads to work with very regularly.
I've wanted to give Huberdeau time to adjust, but it is simply getting silly that he has not found an acceptable offensive game now. Even a half decent forward in the role he is playing should be A LOT more noticeable and impactful on the game and should certainly have more than 10 goals! Even at 5-5 you can somewhat understand the periods of malaise, but for him to be nearly as awful on the PP is bizarre and has little to do with Sutter.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 02-10-2023 at 07:45 AM.
I don't hate the trade considering the circumstances, but BT signing him long term right away was not a good move. It feels to me like it was an emotional move to spite Tkachuk and Gaudreau, not a prudent team management move.
I don't hate the trade considering the circumstances, but BT signing him long term right away was not a good move. It feels to me like it was an emotional move to spite Tkachuk and Gaudreau, not a prudent team management move.
Easy to say in hindsight. I was on the trade or sign before the season but thought worst case was leaving it lingering into the season. No one expected him to be this bad
People keep blaming Sutter but (as I posted in another thread) there are half a dozen or more guys on pace to have career years offensively or very close to it.
When Toffoli, Kadri, Lindholm, Coleman, Dube, Backlund, Zadorov, Andersson and others are on pace for their best or second best season offensively this year, and guys like Gaudreau and Tkachuk scored over 100 points last season, it becomes entirely evident that people who blame Sutter’s coaching for a lack of offence are doing so because they want to, not because the evidence points that direction.
Whatever the problem is, it’s Huberdeau’s to figure out. Why is he so special that he gets excused for not producing when everybody else has managed to produce well under Sutter?
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