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View Poll Results: Are the Flames a better team now than they were in 2021-22?
Yes, they are better. 354 85.30%
No, they are worse. 16 3.86%
No, they are unchanged 45 10.84%
Voters: 415. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-19-2022, 12:23 AM   #101
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I believe Johnny > Huberdeau, and that Tkachuk > Kadri.

I also think Huberdeau + Kadri + Weegar > Johnny + Tkachuk.

On top of that, I think I will probably like Kadri more than I liked Tkachuk and that Kadri will show up better in the playoffs.
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Old 08-19-2022, 12:29 AM   #102
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Didn't read it all so apologize if someone already mentioned it, but team speed is really improved.


Kadri > Tkachuk
Weegar >>> Gudbranson
Pelletier/whomever >> Monahan


The only place I see the Flames taking a step back would be with the intimidation factor and hits. Losing Gudbranson and Ritchie has effectively removed some of that snarl, and I do think that is a very underrated part of the game. That's the only step back that I can see though, and the Flames still have Lucic, and both Weegar and Kadri approximate the physicality that was lost from Tkachuk.
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Old 08-19-2022, 12:33 AM   #103
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It's really a toss up between the two Johnnys for me.

I can't say until I see them both play in that same 1LW role.

Huberdeau has been more consistently top tier in production the last 4 seasons and neither has been outstanding in the POs, so I give the edge to Huberdeau on paper.

Both are offensive catalysts who employ different styles.

We'll see who does it better as Flame.

Overall the three additions win out over Tkachuk + Gaudreau + Gudbranson.

Weegar ultimately breaks the tie, whichever way you lean on the other players.

We should be different but better on the whole. The entertainment value might take a hit given the loss of Gaudreau's dynamic play driving style, but i think we'll pick up wins more often when it matters, including those against rivals. I think we will contain those teams better now and not get roped into their game/style nearly as easily. And that's because I just think Huby and Kadri are tougher customers and will drive play effectively regardless of which teams they are facing. I think they are the type of players to elevate vs heated rivals and not "cower" as Brad so aptly put it.

We need that.

Last edited by djsFlames; 08-19-2022 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 08-19-2022, 12:39 AM   #104
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Florida’s coaching hurt them in the playoffs.

We saw Johnny G at his best so far under Sutter

I look forward to seeing Hubey under Darryl

^ * oh, also if you think Johnny drives play more than Huberdeau, it’s possibly due to watching him more

I watched a good amount of Florida games. Huberdeau was frigging awesome
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:05 AM   #105
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I think they are better, when we look at it from a team perspective.

Weaker on wing, but stronger at C, which was needed
Stronger on D
Better puck moving from the D
Probably weaker on the PP, but we'll see - JG and MT out, but JH and MW in (and Kadri on PP2)
Better on PK
Better suited to Sutter hockey
Built better for the playoffs
And most important, IMO, more team speed.

Out: Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Gudbranson, Ritchie
In: Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Rooney, Pelletier
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:16 AM   #106
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I don't think they are better, I think they are different. Strength has been moved around the lineup. I like the depth down the middle. Backlund has finally been moved to a spot where he should have been playing all these years. We are stacked on the blueline, probably too stacked to be honest. The strength has shifted from the wings to the middle. The (minor) problem there is none of our centers are elite like our wingers were. The depth down the middle is arguably the best in the league, but we need to see how that production from the wings s going to be recouped.

As it is, I think the Flames are about the same as the team from last season. The Flames could be way better than last season if they can find another winger that can be a scoring threat. Doesn't have to be a 40+ goal scorer, but pop 25-30 and the team will be better. I think this is doable if Treliving can find a buyer for one of his blueliners.
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:19 AM   #107
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I don’t see how a team that moves strength from the wings to centre and also adds a top D isn’t better than before.
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:19 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald View Post
I don't think they are better, I think they are different. Strength has been moved around the lineup. I like the depth down the middle. Backlund has finally been moved to a spot where he should have been playing all these years. We are stacked on the blueline, probably too stacked to be honest. The strength has shifted from the wings to the middle. The (minor) problem there is none of our centers are elite like our wingers were. The depth down the middle is arguably the best in the league, but we need to see how that production from the wings s going to be recouped.

As it is, I think the Flames are about the same as the team from last season. The Flames could be way better than last season if they can find another winger that can be a scoring threat. Doesn't have to be a 40+ goal scorer, but pop 25-30 and the team will be better. I think this is doable if Treliving can find a buyer for one of his blueliners.
Pretty much my read as well. The question is - is the team better equipped now to make some noise in the playoffs.
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:25 AM   #109
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Pretty much my read as well. The question is - is the team better equipped now to make some noise in the playoffs.
Emphatic yes for me. They are much more purpose built for a deep run. Yeah they need one more winger in the top 6 to fully be rounded pit , or as rounded out as possible on paper. But overall, this roster for the next 3 years are as formidable as anybody can ask for.

I lol'ed yesterday as I read a youtube comment calling Huberdeau as Wish version of Gaudreau, and I couldn't possibly think they had it more backwards.

The only issue with this roster IMO, is the age. But the window is now. Not tomorrow.
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:32 AM   #110
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I don’t see how a team that moves strength from the wings to centre and also adds a top D isn’t better than before.
We'll see if they can score. You don't win games on paper, you win them on the ice. We'll see if this depth down the middle pays off or if this team struggles to find the net. I think they will be better defensively, but see a drop in scoring. That one winger they are missing is a big piece IMO. Like I said, they aren't better, they are different. I could see a repeat top 10 finish from this lineup, just doing it differently. I don't see these changes giving them the horses to pass any of the teams who finished in front of them.

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Pretty much my read as well. The question is - is the team better equipped now to make some noise in the playoffs.
I don't know. I like Kadri as a playoff performer. I think he's going to help out dramatically. Huberdeau and Weegar both got brickbats in Florida for their post-season performances, so that's an unknown. It will depend on deployment and chemistry, which is Sutter's strength. I like the team on paper. Fill that one gap and I see a contender in the post-season.
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Old 08-19-2022, 07:41 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald View Post
We'll see if they can score. You don't win games on paper, you win them on the ice. We'll see if this depth down the middle pays off or if this team struggles to find the net. I think they will be better defensively, but see a drop in scoring. That one winger they are missing is a big piece IMO. Like I said, they aren't better, they are different. I could see a repeat top 10 finish from this lineup, just doing it differently. I don't see these changes giving them the horses to pass any of the teams who finished in front of them.



I don't know. I like Kadri as a playoff performer. I think he's going to help out dramatically. Huberdeau and Weegar both got brickbats in Florida for their post-season performances, so that's an unknown. It will depend on deployment and chemistry, which is Sutter's strength. I like the team on paper. Fill that one gap and I see a contender in the post-season.
At times Huberdeau can get filled in. He's not a great two-way player but he's elite offensively. Not too different from Johnny. It'll be interesting to see if Sutter can shape him into a more well rounded player.

Weegar's criticism is a little more unfair from Panther fans. Frankly fans stink at assessing dmen and put far too much attention on gaffes, because when they happen (and he had some bad ones) they are very noticeable. But I think that's generally a poor way to evaluate them.

I've hated how the Flames have played McDavid for the last few years. I'm hoping Kadri can be a big part in a more effective strategy against him and Leon. As much as bad goaltending was a big part of that series, they also let those two run the show and had no answer. That has to change, and Kadri is the type of player where perhaps it can.

The Flames aren't going to out chance and out finish the Oilers, so they needed to build a team that could beat them in a different way. We'll see if it works.

I've been pining for changes to the forward group for years, so certainly I'm keen to see if it works.
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:05 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
At times Huberdeau can get filled in. He's not a great two-way player but he's elite offensively. Not too different from Johnny. It'll be interesting to see if Sutter can shape him into a more well rounded player.

Weegar's criticism is a little more unfair from Panther fans. Frankly fans stink at assessing dmen and put far too much attention on gaffes, because when they happen (and he had some bad ones) they are very noticeable. But I think that's generally a poor way to evaluate them.

I've hated how the Flames have played McDavid for the last few years. I'm hoping Kadri can be a big part in a more effective strategy against him and Leon. As much as bad goaltending was a big part of that series, they also let those two run the show and had no answer. That has to change, and Kadri is the type of player where perhaps it can.

The Flames aren't going to out chance and out finish the Oilers, so they needed to build a team that could beat them in a different way. We'll see if it works.

I've been pining for changes to the forward group for years, so certainly I'm keen to see if it works.
I agree that fans generally don't evaluate defensemen as well as they handle forwards, and yes, they focus far too much on gaffes.

I also agree that the Flames have handled McDavid very poorly. Which is bizarre really - when you're in the same division, and he is a member of your most direct rival, you would think the Flames would have put more focus on it by now and come up with a better plan. Kadri will almost certainly improve that situation.
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:45 AM   #113
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I think we are better, or at worst comparable. However we brought in experience and driven players, so that could help a lot too.

Huberdeau and Gaudreau kind of cancel each other out. Maybe slight edge to Huberdeau, but also a question mark as he is new to this team.

Kadri is closer to Tkachuk than it looks at first glance. Both had career years, otherwise putting up solid points and aggravating opponents. Kadri strengthening the most important position makes this close

Weegar is significantly better than Gudbranson. Top pairing guy in, bottom pairing guy out. Play driver in, guy who gets hemmed in out. Gudbranson was tough, but this team has enough snarl in the lineup. What they lacked is enough top end D and that was exposed when Tanev went down.

Rooney vs Monahan, well one has low expectations and the other may never recover from injury. Given this is for the bottom of the lineup, not much to say here.

As I see it, the flames have 6 NHL defencemen plus depth, 8 top 9 forwards, a good starting goalie and a capable backup. What they need is either another top 9 forward, or they roll the dice and make it a competition between Ruzicka, Pelletier, Schwindt, Phillips, etc. for that last spot

This is a good team on paper, just need to get them on the ice, find the combos that work, and win games
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:52 AM   #114
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I like the Kadri signing. But people might want to temper their expectations of his production. Last season was a contract year. Lots of guys play lights-out in contract years and take a step back after they sign a big contract. For the same reason, I expect a regression from Gaudreau as well.
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Old 08-19-2022, 08:57 AM   #115
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We'll see if they can score. You don't win games on paper, you win them on the ice. We'll see if this depth down the middle pays off or if this team struggles to find the net. I think they will be better defensively, but see a drop in scoring. That one winger they are missing is a big piece IMO. Like I said, they aren't better, they are different. I could see a repeat top 10 finish from this lineup, just doing it differently. I don't see these changes giving them the horses to pass any of the teams who finished in front of them.



I don't know. I like Kadri as a playoff performer. I think he's going to help out dramatically. Huberdeau and Weegar both got brickbats in Florida for their post-season performances, so that's an unknown. It will depend on deployment and chemistry, which is Sutter's strength. I like the team on paper. Fill that one gap and I see a contender in the post-season.
On paper is obviously the ony way we can discuss it right now. If you give me two teams that have equally talented players, but one team's forward talent is all on the wings and the other is strong down the middle, I take the latter every time. That's not even counting adding a top pairing D.
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Old 08-19-2022, 09:00 AM   #116
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I like the Kadri signing. But people might want to temper their expectations of his production. Last season was a contract year. Lots of guys play lights-out in contract years and take a step back after they sign a big contract. For the same reason, I expect a regression from Gaudreau as well.
Agreed

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/....php?pid=96553

Kadri is a career 0.70 pts per game. That's a 57 point player a season (Who is getting out of his prime in theory)

By comparison MT is a 0.88 PPG player entering his prime.

If people are expecting Kadri to replace what MT brings offensively I think they will be really disappointed.

Kadri will most likely be around 25 goals and 60 points. There's nothing wrong with that, but the Flames either need another top winger or someone internally to really take the next step - Dube or a rookie

I'm in the boat of "They are about the same" - And that's not a bad thing when you loose your 2 best players. It's actually almost a miracle.
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Old 08-19-2022, 09:02 AM   #117
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I feel like the line combinations are so much better with Kadri in. That weakness at center really was making it look like we would rely on Backlund to score and play a 2nd line role.

Kadri is also more of a playmaker which goes well with our winger and he is decent in transition which is also a concern for the team before yesterday.

I feel Toffoli and Magnipane can gel and develop a great 2nd line with Kadri over Monahan if that is what Sutter goes with for a 2nd line.

I also think if Toffoli or Mangiapane move to the first line that Pelletier would be put in a situation to succeed with Kadri and 1 of Toffoli/Managiapane.

Hoping for a Monahan to make a full recovery and play like he did 3 years ago just wasn't happening imo. Kadri filled a huge hole and our wingers are still good overall.

We do have $2 mil in space to play with too. If we don't do something big I would love to see someone who can skate and hit and fight added to the 4th line.
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Old 08-19-2022, 09:05 AM   #118
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Agreed

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/....php?pid=96553

Kadri is a career 0.70 pts per game. That's a 57 point player a season (Who is getting out of his prime in theory)

By comparison MT is a 0.88 PPG player entering his prime.

If people are expecting Kadri to replace what MT brings offensively I think they will be really disappointed.

Kadri will most likely be around 25 goals and 60 points. There's nothing wrong with that, but the Flames either need another top winger or someone internally to really take the next step - Dube or a rookie

I'm in the boat of "They are about the same" - And that's not a bad thing when you loose your 2 best players. It's actually almost a miracle.
I haven't heard anyone say Kadri = Tkachuk offensively. BUT he fills a bigger need IMO and arguable makes the team balance out better.
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Old 08-19-2022, 09:16 AM   #119
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Not sure how some poster don’t see a change for the positive?

If you had a team that added a top three defencemen at the trade deadline would be seen as a huge trade, the addition of weegar seems to be flying a little under the radar here and on other boards. Johnny huber is a wash, but taking off the loaded front line and adding depth to the middle is no small matter. The second power play just improved drastically. The bottom of the roster improved dramatically having the shift down. Mobility improved as well as match ups just got easier as the coach could go to any of three lines on any given night spending on who’s having a great evening.

If eat bread and Kadri gel, and hubey and lindholm gel, we already know Coleman Backlund is a pair. Looking at that have some mesh on the fourth line this team will be a handful for anyone.

Overall the team will be different and BETTER this year I have no doubt.
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Old 08-19-2022, 09:21 AM   #120
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I don’t know about better in the regular season. More than half the team had career year

But I think the team is better build for the playoffs

Johnny was never a playoff guy and Tkachuk decided to be a moron when the playoffs come around

We’ll see I guess
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