[Trade] Habs trade Shea Weber's contract to Vegas for Evgenii Dadonov

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Admittedly for players like Johnny, the cost of living is probably immaterial and not a meaningful draw one way or another.

That's the nub of it right there.

When you're making that kind of coin, most of your after-tax income should be going into investments, which generally cost the same no matter where you happen to live when you buy them.

[Enoch Root]

Absolutely astounding that people are whining about Vegas and cheating with this trade. They just got worse by giving away a good player, due to their cap issues - which is EXACTLY what we all wanted to happen.

Trying to argue that Dadonov isn't a good player and they are somehow benefitting from this, or cheating, is a textbook example of cognitive dissonance

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

How does that solve Vegas’s problem? They’d get rid of the salary but not get any room to sign anyone.

Wait, what? Are you suggesting that they gain more cap space by acquiring Weber than they would have by trading Dadonov for a pick? Because if you are, then you are wrong.

If they trade Dadonov for a pick (or for nothing), they free up $5M (his entire AAV).

By trading for Weber, they remove Dadonov's AAV, but Weber's is now on the books, and when he is put on LTIR, they only save the space that his salary puts them over the cap (they can theoretically save Dadonov's AAV, but in reality, it will be a number a little less than his AAV).

There is no magical savings when you acquire an LTIR contract. The savings comes from removing Dadonov from the roster. The cost of that savings, was picking up Weber.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Wait, what? Are you suggesting that they gain more cap space by acquiring Weber than they would have by trading Dadonov for a pick? Because if you are, then you are wrong.

If they trade Dadonov for a pick (or for nothing), they free up $5M (his entire AAV).

By trading for Weber, they remove Dadonov's AAV, but Weber's is now on the books, and when he is put on LTIR, they only save the space that his salary puts them over the cap (they can theoretically save Dadonov's AAV, but in reality, it will be a number a little less than his AAV).

There is no magical savings when you acquire an LTIR contract. The savings comes from removing Dadonov from the roster. The cost of that savings, was picking up Weber.

It’s not really savings per se but they were over the cap with dadonov with no ltir. But now are over the cap with ltir. Opens up the ability to make a couple signings they couldn’t make if they traded for a pick.

[GioforPM]

Housing prices don’t matter unless somehow the market craters between a signing and when the player eventually leaves. If houses are expensive, so what? The player can afford one and when he moves on he sells it, often for more.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

It’s not really savings per se but they were over the cap with dadonov with no ltir. But now are over the cap with ltir. Opens up the ability to make a couple signings they couldn’t make if they traded for a pick.

Again, removing Dadonov is what creates the cap space, not acquiring Weber. Here is a simple example:

Team has $85M payroll including Dadonov at $5M, cap is $81M, so they are over and have to remove salary

Scenario 1: trade Dadonpv for a pick, cap goes to $80M, they now have $1M in cap space

Scenario 2: trade Dadonov for Weber (cap hit $5M), their cap stays the same at $85M, but they can put Weber on LTIR, which brings them down to $81M, resulting in zero cap space

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Again, removing Dadonov is what creates the cap space, not acquiring Weber. Here is a simple example:

Team has $85M payroll including Dadonov at $5M, cap is $81M, so they are over and have to remove salary

Scenario 1: trade Dadonpv for a pick, cap goes to $80M, they now have $1M in cap space

Scenario 2: trade Dadonov for Weber (cap hit $5M), their cap stays the same at $85M, but they can put Weber on LTIR, which brings them down to $81M, resulting in zero cap space

I was mistaken.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Again, removing Dadonov is what creates the cap space, not acquiring Weber. Here is a simple example:

Team has $85M payroll including Dadonov at $5M, cap is $81M, so they are over and have to remove salary

Scenario 1: trade Dadonpv for a pick, cap goes to $80M, they now have $1M in cap space

Scenario 2: trade Dadonov for Weber (cap hit $5M), their cap stays the same at $85M, but they can put Weber on LTIR, which brings them down to $81M, resulting in zero cap space

I find this idea of zero cap space confusing. Maybe I’m missing something. In scenario 2, they are over the cap by 4 million, but are only using 4 of the 5 million that Weber earns. So can they still sign a $1 million player and exceed the cap by the full 5 million?

[topfiverecords]

Weber is $7,857,143 not $5.

It’s also important to be as close to the cap with the rest of the roster to start the year so all of the $7,857,143 is used in LTIR.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Wow, who knew I could save my money by living in New York City or LA instead of Winnipeg or Edmonton. Crazy!

I mean, those cities aren't comparable at all, so the difference you're seeing isn't between the US and Canada it's between sucking and not sucking.

But Vancouver is more expensive than LA for everything except healthcare. And Chicago is way cheaper than Toronto with the same exception. (Toronto thinks it's a NYC comparable, but those people are wrong).

I'm not sure what the Winnipeg/Edmonton comparable would be, probably something like Columbus? Which has much cheaper housing than Edmonton/Winnipeg.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Weber is $7,857,143 not $5.

It’s also important to be as close to the cap with the rest of the roster to start the year so all of the $7,857,143 is used in LTIR.

it was a simple example with simple math, wasn't trying to show actual numbers

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I find this idea of zero cap space confusing. Maybe I’m missing something. In scenario 2, they are over the cap by 4 million, but are only using 4 of the 5 million that Weber earns. So can they still sign a $1 million player and exceed the cap by the full 5 million?

Cap relief from LTIR isn't that simple. You don't just save the whole amount of the LTIR contract, you save the amount that the contract puts you over the cap, at the time that you put the player on LTIR (which is why teams will try and maximize their cap situation just before they put a player on LTIR)

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I mean, those cities aren't comparable at all, so the difference you're seeing isn't between the US and Canada it's between sucking and not sucking.

But Vancouver is more expensive than LA for everything except healthcare. And Chicago is way cheaper than Toronto with the same exception. (Toronto thinks it's a NYC comparable, but those people are wrong).

I'm not sure what the Winnipeg/Edmonton comparable would be, probably something like Columbus? Which has much cheaper housing than Edmonton/Winnipeg.

Which is why broad statements like “the cost of living in the USA is significantly lower than Canada” are moronic.

Which is what the post said that I was attempting to sarcastically respond to.

[EldrickOnIce]

Knights must also be cap compliant to start the season, including Webers contract (prior to placing him on LTIR).
Or do I misunderstand?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Knights must also be cap compliant to start the season, including Webers contract (prior to placing him on LTIR).
Or do I misunderstand?

A lot of teams in the past would have been over the cap to start the season if players that were going to be placed on LTIR were counted on the cap.

[getbak]

Look at Tampa's opening night roster from last season: https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-opening...on/c-320209828

If you add up the cap hits for the 22 players listed, it comes in at just over $77.5 million, but they also had Gaborik, Nilsson, and Kucherov on LTIR for the entire season at a combined cap hit just under $17 million. If those salaries counted on their opening roster, their total cap hit would have been over $94.5 million -- well over the $81.5 million cap.