Australian Racial Violence?!?

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well everybody already knew that so you haven't proven anything.

You haven't convinced anyone that immigrants and outsiders are keeping god out of schools either. Do you even believe it yourself anymore?

Here's a hypothetical...

If we ignored the wishes of every person who hasn't been here for, say, 40 years. Only established Canadians in Canada since 1965 or born here get a vot in a referendum with this question:

Should the Christian God play a role in Canada's school systems? Yes or No

How do you see that one going?

I'd say that there would be a lot more No votes than Yes votes. Do you agree?

TRY READING!

Maybe someone else can get through to this chump. What is it that you aren't getting?

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by Jayems

Quote:
So I would respectfully suggest that when Christians translate the spiritual idea of the unity of people under God into the political ideology that people from all cultures should be allowed to come en masse to America and other Western countries, that is not the traditional teaching of the Christian church, that is a modern liberal idea, that is the Religion of Man, which has been infused into the Christian church over the past 50 years.


But if this is the case, how can we reconcile our potential spiritual unity as human beings under God with our actual cultural differences? The answer is that in individual and private relationships, people of different backgrounds can relate to each other as individuals, without discrimination of culture and ethnicity. But on the group level, on the level of entire peoples and nations and mass migrations, cultural differences do matter very much and cannot be safely ignored.


http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/000637.html

Thats what I believe in.

Where's yours? Or are you still talking out your ass?

Originally Posted by Jayems

I agree. I never once said that religion belongs in school.

Originally Posted by Jayems

You give me A and B to chose from. Both which are at opposite ends of the spectrum. So, i guess the answer is both.

And most importantly...

Originally Posted by Jayems

Im not getting into that, im just using that as an example. Take it for that and nothing else.

Originally Posted by Jayems

I'm an immigrant

Originally Posted by Jayems

I was just trying to use it as an example to get a point across, and did state not to look further into it than an example.

At what point, during any of this did I claim to believe this? It would seem to me that I have been using examples from others debates.

I dunno, want to keep asking me redundant questions that mean absolutely nothing?

You did take it for something else, and for that, my friend, you need shut up and finally admit that you are fighting a ghost. You are going on and on and on and on about nothing, and making no quality assessments, and just harping on my posts.

Again, what aren't you getting?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Jayems

TRY READING!

Maybe someone else can get through to this chump. What is it that you aren't getting?

I can't read, you said so yourself.

What's your answer?

It's an easy question. Yes or no.

[Jayems]

Oh my god. You are officially ******ed

[Jayems]

You aren't that stupid for me to have to put your quotes above mine beacuse you don't know what I'm saying... are you?

Because, you have made it my personal mission for you to get out from the ranks of the feeble-minded.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Jayems

And most importantly...




At what point, during any of this did I claim to believe this? It would seem to me that I have been using examples from others debates.

I dunno, want to keep asking me redundant questions that mean absolutely nothing?

You did take it for something else, and for that, my friend, you need shut up and finally admit that you are fighting a ghost. You are going on and on and on and on about nothing, and making no quality assessments, and just harping on my posts.

Again, what aren't you getting?

What I'm not getting?

What I'm not getting is that you put forth a theory that immigrants and outsiders are dictating how we live our lives and you aren't giving any evidence to back it up. None.

The one example that you have used several times is wrong and now it appears you've retreated back to "it's just an example so don't challenge it" which isn't an argument at all, it's a cop-out.

So again, would you care to give another example that immigrants and outsiders are pushing their beliefs on us and telling us how to live? Or if you wish, you could at least try to argue that your other example is valid.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Jayems

You aren't that stupid for me to have to put your quotes above mine beacuse you don't know what I'm saying... are you?

Because, you have made it my personal mission for you to get out from the ranks of the feeble-minded.

Obviously I am that stupid so give me an answer to the question.

If you think longtime Canadians would vote to bring god back into the classroom, I disagree.

If you think longtime Canadians would vote against bringing god back into the classroom then you are contradicting yourself.

So which is it?

[Jayems]

Writing it now.

[Jayems]

Where to start....

Ok, well the type of family of the different groups of immigrants differs because of nationality and religion. There are some differences, family ties are more intense, there are more siblings etc... Families who come from Africa or from Asia, and even Europe can have very different family structures even though these can look pretty close to ourrs.

There are often huge differences in the ways the children are brought up, and the approach to education.

Ex: The religious and moral outlooks are different

Immigrants are likely to live among themselves, isolating themselves from the outside environment.. know what i mean?. Ethnics that maintain strong unions can survive and have a chance to succeed in a new environment. Ther are many different attitudes in relation to immigrants that range from the acceptance of immigrants, from demands for their integration (assimilation?), from the refusal of some behaviour, to an outright rejection of their presence in the adoptive country.

Even when the presence of immigrants is accepted and demands for integration are put forward, the problems are still there.

School integration can provoke serious conflicts with the family of origin and with the traditional cultural model of the country they came from These can be difficult to resolve. Problems can arise when the immigrants kids get acustomed too quickly with the values and traditions of the new environment.

The child assimilates too quickly with the norms of the new "society" can come into conflict with his/her own family because it may not accept the child’s new way of thinking and behaving.The immigrant family may refuse contact with the school since they do not recognise themselves in the school’s values.

parents do not understand the culturre of the new society, while the local teachers usually cannot understand the arrival of the new culture.

This results in the cultures approaching the schools, the local reps, MPs, whatever, to ask that their culture be accepted in the education system. What is one thing that differs? Religion.

The big thing is, everyone wants everyone to be equal (fair enough) and that means removing ALL religions from schools for equality and acceptance of cultures. (Fair Enough)

But that is the case, that they come here, assimilate, and change what was here for all those years so that they can be educated with out having christian god forced on them.

I'm all for it, like I said.

Mcbooyah?

[peter12]

Jayems... really long. No emprical evidence to back any of it up. Immigrants to Canada are increasingly becoming part of the general Canadian society since the Official Multiculturalism Act. Check Nevitte and Kanji, two political writers.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Jayems

But that is the case, that they come here, assimilate, and change what was here for all those years so that they can be educated with out having christian god forced on them.

You can't both assimilate and change what was here for all those years.

Whatever. You are wrong.

We don't keep god out of schools because the outsiders want it that way, we keep god out of schools because the insiders want it that way.

You still haven't answered the question though.

Do you think the majority of longtime insider Canadians want religion in public schools? Yes or no?

I know you think you are Mr.Clarity but unfortunately you are not and I know I'm a stupid, feeble-minded, illiterate, ignorant chump and all that but just answer the question with a yes or no.

Again... if you answer yes, I think you are wrong. If you answer no then you are contradicting yourself.

So what is it? Yes or no?

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

You're completely missing his point, he already qualified what he defined as an "outsider" (people who remain closely guarded in their customs and culture, refusing to merge with the mainstream Canadian society, then cry foul when mainstream Canadians' way of life interfere with theirs.)

I can't stand people like that either, if you choose to live in this country, be a contributing citizen, multicultualism isn't about moving your entire way of life here and act like this is just a piece of land for you to continue to live like you're in Sudan, France, China, Italy, or wherever you come from, and then expecting everyone else to accomodate YOUR way of life in this country. If YOU immigrated here it is YOUR responsibility to fit in, not the other way around. And if you refuse to step out of your cultural clique and learn the language of the nation where you live and work, don't bitch about discrimination or start calling people racists when you can't get a job, or the bank teller can't understand what you want and proceed to help the next customer. It's common sense.

By the way, The immigrant you just described above in your post, that's me to a T. I have no beef with what Jayems said above, and I do agree with you that people who think like how you just described are ignorant.

Interesting theory, but I think that if you have spent 10, 20 or 30 years when you move to another country you should try to fit in. Unfortunately, it's just not that easy.

See, I live in Japan. I speak the language, but know some people who don't, mostly because it isn't necessary for them. Now since I have come to Japan to work, live and raise my daughter, does that mean that I have to stop watching hockey as I live in Japan? Does it mean that I should not celebrate Christmas like I would back home? Just where do you stop demanding?

Like it or not, those Sudanese people have their own culture, they have come to Canada to make a better life for themselves and the pinnacle of freedom is being able to come here, live life and celebrate their customs it in a manner that makes them happy. If they don't want to learn English, fine - it will limit their chances but they may be fine with the opportunity they are given. When you start trying to force people to fit in, that's when problems arise - and a far greater problem than simple "he's doesn't speak my language so he's less of a Canadian than I am".

[TheCommodoreAfro]

While I'm at it, here's a question that points to the murkiness of the "Canadian" identity and how one is expected to behave in our country. Answer one question:

What is Canadian food?

Stumps me to this day.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

While I'm at it, here's a question that points to the murkiness of the "Canadian" identity and how one is expected to behave in our country. Answer one question:

What is Canadian food?

Stumps me to this day.

Bacon.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You can't both assimilate and change what was here for all those years.

Whatever. You are wrong.

We don't keep god out of schools because the outsiders want it that way, we keep god out of schools because the insiders want it that way.

You still haven't answered the question though.

Do you think the majority of longtime insider Canadians want religion in public schools? Yes or no?

I know you think you are Mr.Clarity but unfortunately you are not and I know I'm a stupid, feeble-minded, illiterate, ignorant chump and all that but just answer the question with a yes or no.

Again... if you answer yes, I think you are wrong. If you answer no then you are contradicting yourself.

So what is it? Yes or no?

For the sake of this useless argument, im going to drop it.

I have my answer, and think it is obvious. I think if you look, you can figure it out, but for the sake of dropping this, i've tried.

Your right. I'm wrong. Lets move on.

My answer:

Yes. I believe that some canadians want the church in schools.
No. I believe that immigrants, entering a multicultural society, do not have to be subjected to others beliefs and therefor have had an effect on our society by changing god in schools.

I also firmly believe, as stated, that there is no room for religion in schools except for the learning of other cultures.

Contradictory or not, ****ing you off or not, there you have it.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by peter12

Jayems... really long. No emprical evidence to back any of it up. Immigrants to Canada are increasingly becoming part of the general Canadian society since the Official Multiculturalism Act. Check Nevitte and Kanji, two political writers.

Tell you what, you give me "Empirical" evidence that they haven't.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

Interesting theory, but I think that if you have spent 10, 20 or 30 years when you move to another country you should try to fit in. Unfortunately, it's just not that easy.

See, I live in Japan. I speak the language, but know some people who don't, mostly because it isn't necessary for them. Now since I have come to Japan to work, live and raise my daughter, does that mean that I have to stop watching hockey as I live in Japan? Does it mean that I should not celebrate Christmas like I would back home? Just where do you stop demanding?

Like it or not, those Sudanese people have their own culture, they have come to Canada to make a better life for themselves and the pinnacle of freedom is being able to come here, live life and celebrate their customs it in a manner that makes them happy. If they don't want to learn English, fine - it will limit their chances but they may be fine with the opportunity they are given. When you start trying to force people to fit in, that's when problems arise - and a far greater problem than simple "he's doesn't speak my language so he's less of a Canadian than I am".

Well put.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Jayems

For the sake of this useless argument, im going to drop it.

I have my answer, and think it is obvious. I think if you look, you can figure it out, but for the sake of dropping this, i've tried.

Your right. I'm wrong. Lets move on.

The answer isn't obvious.

Do you think the majority of longtime insider Canadians want religion in public schools? Yes or no?

[Jayems]

You can't throw all "majority of longtime insider canadians" into one bucket. Thats why it can't be answered properly. See above.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Jayems

You can't throw all "majority of longtime insider canadians" into one bucket. Thats why it can't be answered properly. See above.

Yes I can.

Just answer the question.

Do you think the majority of longtime insider Canadians want religion in public schools? Yes or no?