[GDT] Chicago at Calgary 7pm MT - SNW1, NBCSCH

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

20 games into the season, and the Flames lead the conference.

And every single thread, including every single GDT, GT (when they're winning) and PGT (after they've won - again) has been littered with people wanting to whine about Treliving or Monahan or Zadorov or Valimaki (or whatever else they can think of).

It has been more than pathetic, it is bordering on disgusting.

I haven't noticed the Treliving and Monahan stuff..? Maybe I just gloss over it.

I am one of the ppl who is annoyed with the Valimaki/Zadorov situation but I do think Sutter knows how to develop young dmen. I am going to trust him but I still would prefer Vali plays more often than not.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

20 games into the season, and the Flames lead the conference.

And every single thread, including every single GDT, GT (when they're winning) and PGT (after they've won - again) has been littered with people wanting to whine about Treliving or Monahan or Zadorov or Valimaki (or whatever else they can think of).

It has been more than pathetic, it is bordering on disgusting.

It's a discussion forum and we are discussing players. Not sure why some posters always want to turn things personal.

We are having a pretty civil debate and you have cheerleaders on the side just wanting to rile up the troops.

Either discuss the players or don't.

[Johnny Makarov]

Shows you how deep we are on defence right now.

All 7 dmen this year has played better than Gio did the past year and a half he was with us.

It's fine that Valimaki sits. He'll be well rested for a deep run into the playoffs.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

It's a discussion forum and we are discussing players. Not sure why some posters always want to turn things personal.

We are having a pretty civil debate and you have cheerleaders on the side just wanting to rile up the troops.

Either discuss the players or don't.

Hard to take it seriously when you say Zadorov will be out of the league and is the worst dman in the NHL.

Guy is 26, massive, and by all defensive metrics pretty solid. Have your preference but when you go overboard like this it's hard to have a real debate

Flames are also #1 in the league in GA...they must be doing something right

[WhiteTiger]

Go Flames go!

[Johnny Makarov]

Zadarov has been amazing for us this year. Like those forwards don't pee a little when they go into the boards against him and Gudbranson.

Goes to bat for his teammates and when was the last time a Flames Dman hit like that? Engelland?

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hard to take it seriously when you say Zadorov will be out of the league and is the worst dman in the NHL.

Guy is 26, massive, and by all defensive metrics pretty solid. Have your preference but when you go overboard like this it's hard to have a real debate

Flames are also #1 in the league in GA...they must be doing something right

Didn't say he was the worst defenceman in the NHL. Said he is one of the worst and I truly believe that. I think you could take any other teams 6th d man and either upgrade or not miss a beat.

And I do believe he will be out of the NHL within 2 years.
I think another team gives him a 1 year deal next season then he's off to the KHL.

Is it really a ridiculous take that a 6th/7th d man will be out of the league soon?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Didn't say he was the worst defenceman in the NHL. Said he is one of the worst and I truly believe that. I think you could take any other teams 6th d man and either upgrade or not miss a beat.

And I do believe he will be out of the NHL within 2 years.
I think another team gives him a 1 year deal next season then he's off to the KHL.

Is it really a ridiculous take that a 6th/7th d man will be out of the league soon?

But you think Chicago had a good read on him/is trustworthy (regarding hockey), yeah?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Didn't say he was the worst defenceman in the NHL. Said he is one of the worst and I truly believe that. I think you could take any other teams 6th d man and either upgrade or not miss a beat.

And I do believe he will be out of the NHL within 2 years.
I think another team gives him a 1 year deal next season then he's off to the KHL.

Is it really a ridiculous take that a 6th/7th d man will be out of the league soon?

You are way off base on Zadarov and i'll take that bet.

[Kovaz]

When you dig into the numbers, both 3rd pair options have been about break-even in expected goals and slightly positive in goals, but with Valimaki they both create and allow a lot more.


Zadorov-Gudbranson (145:36 TOI): 1.72 xGF/60, 1.70 xGA/60
Valimaki-Gudbranson (103:28 TOI): 2.58 xGF/60, 2.65 xGA/60


Doesn't shock me at all that Sutter would prefer the more defensively-solid pair. IMO a big part of our defensive success this year has been defending the middle of the ice well and not allowing screens and rebounds, and having that kind of size on the third pair contributes a lot to that. It also seems like our style of play helps cover up for a mediocre puck-mover, not sure exactly what but I've noticed a lot fewer bad turnovers than in past years.

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Do you still live in Chicago or moved to Calgary?

Partly curious because:

a) Wondering why you are a member of CP. Not against it by any stretch just curious how some outside fans end up here

b) If I can't sell my tickets and you live in Calgary I would offer them up to you for free as I can't go

I was raised in Chicago and I live in Utah. I was invited to join CP by Flames' fan, Nickerjones, who had visited a Chicago fan forum in the 2010 season, when the 'Hawks played the Flames in January.

Not a lot of hockey fans where I live, and I enjoy a knowledgeable and active forum, so have stuck around.

I am not a particular fan of the Flames, but, unlike, say, the Canucks, Oil, or Blues, have no great hatred for them either.

Thanks for the kind offer, though.

Edit, about myself, I am an OLD NHL fan, and saw my first game on Boxing Day, 1965, at age 7. A 1-1 tie with the Leafs, where neither goalie, Glenn Hall or Johnny Bower wore face protection!

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

You are way off base on Zadarov and i'll take that bet.

What bet?

Sometimes feel like I have logged into a betting site with all these bets going on.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

When you dig into the numbers, both 3rd pair options have been about break-even in expected goals and slightly positive in goals, but with Valimaki they both create and allow a lot more.


Zadorov-Gudbranson (145:36 TOI): 1.72 xGF/60, 1.70 xGA/60
Valimaki-Gudbranson (103:28 TOI): 2.58 xGF/60, 2.65 xGA/60

Are these stats Score-and-venue adjusted? I don't believe they are based on the stats I've seen.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

What bet?

Sometimes feel like I have logged into a betting site with all these bets going on.

this one

And I do believe he will be out of the NHL within 2 years

and you should be betting. The Flames and mostly Canucks the past 30 days will pay for my kitchen renos and new appliances.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

this one

That's an opinion, not a bet.

[thefoss1957]

On Zadarov, he was a non-factor on an awful defense, last year. He wasn't as undisciplined as feared, but was not great in coverage, either. The 'Hawks had some young D-Men that they were bringing along, like Mitchell, Boqvist, Beaudin, and there seemed no room for the expense of a Zadarov. Boqvist got sent to Columbus in the S. Jones deal, Mitchell and Beaudin got sent to the Rock to play for the Icehogs.

[bigrangy]

The solution to this Valimaki-Zadorov dilemma is simple

Promote Kylington to #2/3 C

Then go

Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Zadorov-Gudbranson

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Didn't say he was the worst defenceman in the NHL. Said he is one of the worst and I truly believe that. I think you could take any other teams 6th d man and either upgrade or not miss a beat.

And I do believe he will be out of the NHL within 2 years.
I think another team gives him a 1 year deal next season then he's off to the KHL.

Is it really a ridiculous take that a 6th/7th d man will be out of the league soon?

Well you said basically the same thing about Hanifin

If Zadorov goes the the KHL its because he wants to go home and because he is getting paid. I think the value of contract is a fair debate but there are way worse dmen in the league and being huge is definitely a plus that puts him ahead of everyone with an equal skillset.

He is #6 on the Flames who are the best defensive team in the league, plays way higher on a bad team. Remember there are 32 teams now. He is also 26 which is still pretty young.

There is no way he is out of the league anytime soon unless he chooses to be. KHL could give him a massive deal though, he is a top russian dman.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

It's a discussion forum and we are discussing players. Not sure why some posters always want to turn things personal.

We are having a pretty civil debate and you have cheerleaders on the side just wanting to rile up the troops.

Either discuss the players or don't.

Which former poster are you again....? Just aksin.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

The solution to this Valimaki-Zadorov dilemma is simple

Promote Kylington to #2/3 C

Then go

Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Zadorov-Gudbranson

Kylington actually played centre in minor hockey. I don't want to use the term "natural forward" considering even the GOAT defenseman Bobby Orr played the wing until he was around ten, but it wouldn't be crazy to want to try Kylington at centre and see what he can do at the position. I guess faceoffs might be a struggle, but eh. Malkin won 3 cups being awful at them