[News] Monahan knows what's on the line this season: 'I have a lot to prove'

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Unless I have my timelines mixed up Button also brought in Craig Conroy and Head Coach Darryl Sutter. Might deserve credit for those two.

The story at the time was that the owners wanted Darryl Sutter. From the time of the Savard trade, Button was a dead man walking. Forced to choose between his best centre and his coach, he gave away the centre for nothing, and barely two weeks later he fired the coach anyway. After that, I don't think he had the autonomy to make any important moves, and I believe it was decided well in advance that his contract would not be renewed after the season. Nobody was surprised when Sutter became the new GM; I think that may have been the owners' plan all along.

Conroy was a great acquisition, but in hindsight, trading Stillman for him was a bit of an overpayment. After all, Stillman went on to score 55 assists and win the Stanley Cup not once, but in two consecutive seasons.

[Buff]

King and the owners wanted Gilbert gone but Button, for whatever reason, was trying to avoid that. There was footage of King and Button having terse words with one another in the press box and the next day Gilbert was fired.

I recall it being speculated that King and the owners hired Sutter to be the GM and Coach but Sutter didn't want the GM job until after the season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Nm

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

He lost the trade at the time. Stillman was a really good player. A good top 6 player, probably our second best forward. He got lucky Connie morphed into a better fit. I don't think he saw it coming, no way.

Sutter was brought in by ownership

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How do you lose a trade "at the time". That basically means fans didn't like it. Who cares.
They brought in a guy who became the #1 centre and a great two way forward.

You can't discredit good moves like that just because you don't like the GM

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Unless I have my timelines mixed up Button also brought in Craig Conroy and Head Coach Darryl Sutter. Might deserve credit for those two.

Also, since this was originally about Treliving, he's eerily close to both those things. All it'd take is Heinemann busting (not out of the question), Bennett maintaining, and Gaudreau leaving in UFA.

Obviously context is everything so not apples to apples, but those descriptions did sound familiar

There is a reason Button is now a ‘scout’ for TSN. Treliving may beat him soon though.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

How do you lose a trade "at the time". That basically means fans didn't like it. Who cares.
They brought in a guy who became the #1 centre and a great two way forward.

You can't discredit good moves like that just because you don't like the G

On this basis the Flames lost the Newy trade. Remember the headline “Jarome who”

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

How do you lose a trade "at the time". That basically means fans didn't like it. Who cares.
They brought in a guy who became the #1 centre and a great two way forward.

You can't discredit good moves like that just because you don't like the GM

Yeah. You're underrating Stillman at the time, heck even after. If you want to give a guy like Button the benefit of the doubt that he saw Conroy's future, all the power to you. I see it as dumb luck. The same GM gave away Savard, lost St.Louis and was looking into moving Iginla for peca. What a weird stance to take lol.

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[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Yeah. You're underrating Stillman at the time, heck even after. If you want to give a guy like Button the benefit of the doubt that he saw Conroy's future, all the power to you. I see it as dumb luck. The same GM gave away Savard, lost St.Louis and was looking into moving Iginla for peca. What a weird stance to take lol.

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Not under-rating him. He went on to a great career, improved as a player, and some rings to boot.

But chalking up a positive trade as "dumb luck" is a biased POV.
He made the trade. It was a good one. He gets the credit.

The fact he gave away Savard is irrelevant to assessing this trade.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Not under-rating him. He went on to a great career, improved as a player, and some rings to boot.



But chalking up a positive trade as "dumb luck" is a biased POV.

He made the trade. It was a good one. He gets the credit.



The fact he gave away Savard is irrelevant to assessing this trade.

Not irrelevant at all it shows he's bad at assessing talent and managing assets. Period.

It's not biased at all either. It's basically a situation of a broken clock being right twice a day imo. If you make 10 bad moves for every one good one, chances are that the one good one was just luck... the law of averages.

But I get it. You need to get in there and defend management's honor every chance you get. You do you

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[FlamesAddiction]

I recall thinking the deal was a fleecing by St. Louis and hated it at the time. But I also recall someone pointing out at the time that Conroy, while not producing as much as Stillman, was getting Selke votes. I think he was in the top 5 for Selke votes when he was acquired. That was back in a time where the Selke was not influenced by points like it is today, and more purely defensive forwards could win it. It was the kind of leadership attitude that the team needed to change the country club culture.

The fact that Conroy formed instant chemistry with Iginla was a bit lucky. I don't think you can predict those things.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Not irrelevant at all it shows he's bad at assessing talent and managing assets. Period.

It's not biased at all either. It's basically a situation of a broken clock being right twice a day imo. If you make 10 bad moves for every one good one, chances are that the one good one was just luck... the law of averages.

But I get it. You need to get in there and defend management's honor every chance you get. You do you

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Button was a bad GM who made a good trade for Conroy.
It's that simple.

You can give him credit for the legitimate good moves he made, while still holding an opinion that overall he was a bad GM.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Button was a bad GM who made a good trade for Conroy.
It's that simple.

You can give him credit for the legitimate good moves he made, while still holding an opinion that overall he was a bad GM.

You are asking for basic nuance that is apparently inappropriate in these discussions.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are asking for basic nuance that is apparently inappropriate in these discussions.

LOL... or I just don't agree. Honestly though, IDGAF what you or Jiri think about my opinion of Craig button, or if he lucked out on Conroy or not. If you guys want to kick dirt up over nothing, have at it. It's an argument he started, and you chimed in with a thinly veiled insult... for what? To make yourself feel better? To score points with Jiri? Maybe button is your uncle?

This place is so hilarious sometimes.

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[Blaster86]

Well, this escalated! Allow me to help!

Monahan? More like Monabad, amirite?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

LOL... or I just don't agree. Honestly though, IDGAF what you or Jiri think about my opinion of Craig button, or if he lucked out on Conroy or not. If you guys want to kick dirt up over nothing, have at it. It's an argument he started, and you chimed in with a thinly veiled insult... for what? To make yourself feel better? To score points with Jiri? Maybe button is your uncle?

This place is so hilarious sometimes.

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LOL. Chill.

[TheoFleury]

Sorry about that. I have a pretty severe mood disorder. Looking back now, kinda a bit much haha. Story of my life lol

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[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Well, this escalated! Allow me to help!

Monahan? More like Monabad, amirite?

More like

Namohands

[Classic_Sniper]

Not at all surprised with Monahan’s unproductive start. I said it last season that it’d be difficult for him to be productive without an elite playmaker on his wing to get him the puck in prime scoring positions. Monahan has never been the type of player who can create his own shot or make something out of nothing, hence why he’s been been so quiet and held pointless so far this season.

He’s still excels at finishing in tight and can roof a puck inches from a goalies pad, but the problem is, if the puck is never on his stick in tight, how is he supposed to finish? At this point in his career, he might have to accept a trade elsewhere if he wants a shot at another pay day because I just don’t see any current linemates that can help elevate his game back to respectability. At this rate, his contract just looks like an albatross over anything else right now.

I will give him some credit though, his work ethic and checking have been noticeable. He’s had a couple nice forechecks and he’s been harder on pucks in the defensive zone. Although, his transition defense has not been good which is partially why he sits at a minus 3 through 4 games.

If he can use his new found edge to grind along the boards more and cycle effectively, perhaps he can clean up garbage in front of the net when the D spam point shots. Otherwise, I don’t know how else he’s going to score 5 on 5.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Not at all surprised with Monahan’s unproductive start. I said it last season that it’d be difficult for him to be productive without an elite playmaker on his wing to get him the puck in prime scoring positions. Monahan has never been the type of player who can create his own shot or make something out of nothing, hence why he’s been been so quiet and held pointless so far this season.

He’s still excels at finishing in tight and can roof a puck inches from a goalies pad, but the problem is, if the puck is never on his stick in tight, how is he supposed to finish? At this point in his career, he might have to accept a trade elsewhere if he wants a shot at another pay day because I just don’t see any current linemates that can help elevate his game back to respectability. At this rate, his contract just looks like an albatross over anything else right now.

I will give him some credit though, his work ethic and checking have been noticeable. He’s had a couple nice forechecks and he’s been harder on pucks in the defensive zone. Although, his transition defense has not been good which is partially why he sits at a minus 3 through 4 games.

If he can use his new found edge to grind along the boards more and cycle effectively, perhaps he can clean up garbage in front of the net when the D spam point shots. Otherwise, I don’t know how else he’s going to score 5 on 5.

If the Flames want to salvage anything out of Monahan they can’t have him play with Lucic and Lewis, that’s insane. Worst case, make him play wing on the Backlund line or the Dube line (I would prefer the Dube line). Agree that he has to play with skilled players to be anywhere close to effective.

[neo45]

I don’t know what Monahan’s trade value is or ever was but the org has definitely hurt it by having him play hurt when he wasn’t helping and now putting him on the fourth line