08-15-2021, 09:13 PM
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#102
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moscow
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I spent 7 weeks travelling around North and Central Afghanistan in ~2016. It is an otherworldly and beautiful place. And the people are kind and welcoming. And they are very poor and have suffered more than the people of nearly any other state on earth over the past ~40 years.
This news is so very sad.
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"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
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08-15-2021, 09:31 PM
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#103
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 110%
Seems like they did quite a bit man
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Not really the Taliban had been gaining ground steadily even after Obama's troop surge
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08-15-2021, 10:04 PM
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#104
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_guy
Not really the Taliban had been gaining ground steadily even after Obama's troop surge
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Dude. You can't be serious. The entire country fell in a week. Kabul was over taken without a fight. The presence meant something. This is a complete and total disaster and Trudeau has completely bungled this only made.worse by biden pulling the rug.
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08-15-2021, 10:11 PM
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#105
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
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reprehensible.
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
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08-15-2021, 10:11 PM
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#106
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First Line Centre
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This was the inevitable end-game 20 years ago when we went in.
I remember watching the news on post- 9/11 and seeing the operations begin into Afghanistan. At the time, many were saying that this would end up in a long wasteful exercise that would result in the same status for afghanistan that it has had for thousands of years. I didn't think it would take 20 years, but here we are.
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08-15-2021, 10:17 PM
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#107
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Franchise Player
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It's heartbreaking to see honestly.
The western nations absolutely botched this badly (US, UK, Canada, et al)... at a minimum, they should have got those that directly assisted their forces out...
This is something that was absolutely preventable...
I am a Biden supporter, but boy, did he ever misread this... him and senior civilian and military advisors...this was purely a decision made to fulfil an arbitrary timeline, and deserves as much derision as Bush got for "Mission Accomplished" or Trump 'negotiating' with the Taliban
Quote:
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“We bear a major responsibility for this,” Ryan Crocker, former US ambassador to Afghanistan, told CNN on Thursday. “It began under President Trump when he authorised negotiations between the US and the Taliban without the Afghan government in the room. That was a key Taliban demand, and we acceded to it, and it was a huge demoralizing factor for the Afghan government and its security focus.”
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1902376.html
Quote:
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“One more year, or five more years, of U.S. military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan military cannot or will not hold its own country,” Biden insisted. That’s only true if it was inevitable that the U.S. military would pull out. But U.S. forces are still present in far larger numbers in countries such as Germany, Japan and South Korea after more than 70 years. There was nothing foreordained about the withdrawal of 2,500 U.S. advisers in Afghanistan. Indeed, the United States is maintaining a similar-size mission in Iraq with almost no controversy.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ster-is-biden/
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08-15-2021, 10:24 PM
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#108
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary
It's heartbreaking to see honestly.
The western nations absolutely botched this badly (US, UK, Canada, et al)... at a minimum, they should have got those that directly assisted their forces out...
This is something that was absolutely preventable...
I am a Biden supporter, but boy, did he ever misread this... him and senior civilian and military advisors...this was purely a decision made to fulfil an arbitrary timeline, and deserves as much derision as Bush got for "Mission Accomplished" or Trump 'negotiating' with the Taliban
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1902376.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ster-is-biden/ |
Taliban waits out total conquest to make it official on 9/11. There goes the midterms.
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08-15-2021, 11:04 PM
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#109
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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This has all the ingredients of one of the wests most shameful moments, basically we are just left hoping the Taliban dont kill the 100,000 to 200,000 afghans we have hung out to dry utterly
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08-15-2021, 11:06 PM
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#110
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
This was the inevitable end-game 20 years ago when we went in.
I remember watching the news on post- 9/11 and seeing the operations begin into Afghanistan. At the time, many were saying that this would end up in a long wasteful exercise that would result in the same status for afghanistan that it has had for thousands of years. I didn't think it would take 20 years, but here we are.
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Had to keep the gravy train going as long as they could. Afghanistan provided a remarkably long-term source of revenue for defense and private military contractors.
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08-15-2021, 11:08 PM
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#111
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#1 Goaltender
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1427132242434875392
https://twitter.com/user/status/1427132804744220681
Biden's Saigon, but this feels worse.
This was fully preventable. While Trump made the policy of finally leaving Afghanistan, the policy itself was supported by both parties and was supported by Americans.
It's the implementation that was a total failure, as was mentioned in a BBC news piece today. It was never going to be pretty in the end, but it didn't need to be this disaster.
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08-15-2021, 11:20 PM
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#114
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebot
How does Biden respond to this now?
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Blame Trump of course that's how politics works.
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08-15-2021, 11:40 PM
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#115
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wherever you go there you are.
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Say hello to the current Afghani leadership. From a reddit thread about Taliban in the presidential palace.
Last edited by Cliche; 08-15-2021 at 11:42 PM.
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08-16-2021, 12:20 AM
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#118
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NOT breaking news
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
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Always gotta take a victory lap
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
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08-16-2021, 12:30 AM
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#119
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliche
Say hello to the current Afghani leadership. From a reddit thread about Taliban in the presidential palace.
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only one ak, the rest are liberated AR15's, the Taliban is going to be quite well armed for a few years at least
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08-16-2021, 01:32 AM
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#120
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Nanaimo
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It was never going to work in Afghanistan that's why it was an Unpopular "intervention ".
I Agree we need to help those who helped us but there was no way to permanently stay . Both Administration's inherited this issue. At some point this call needed to be called and no matter it be the current administrations or 30years down the road. People lost support for staying Afghanistan along time ago. I Agree we need to help the interpeters and support staff out no disagreements there. 20 years, 30 years,60 years of occupation was never going to overturn the fundamentalism of the region dating back to 7th century and further.
I'm sure when leaders were saying it should go smoothly a month 2 months ago didn't predict the ANA to flee and just surrender so readily. I'm sure they thought there would be a bit more time between a taliban offensive push to where they are now in just under a week.
There's only 1 way that it was ever going to work and society was never going to stomach that from day 1. That would have had to of been an all out occupation doubling and possibly tripling the number of troops with American appointed government, undiscrimitory seek and destroy policy Ala China. The region would have to be made a secular country And if they could even get that point the states would have to basically fund a iron dome 2.0 to have any sort of maintenance in that region.
That would have probably de stable the region even more than we are seeing currently.
Look we should have never gone but as it sits we need to help out those that helped us but we can't stay forever with the half measures only being taken. We need to leave at some point . We can't call for decades to leave a country then when we do say we have to stay . It can't be both . The call had trade one way or another and no one was ever going to be happy with either 9ne because what we are seeing was the only way it was ever going to end 19 years ago or 30 years from now.
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 08-16-2021 at 01:50 AM.
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