[Trade] Ristolainen to Philly for Hagg, 14th OA, and 2023 2nd

[dissentowner]

Lmao, stupid Flyers.

[sureLoss]

It feels like that once Fletcher knew that Jones didn't want to sign in Philly, he took the package he was offering to CBJ and gave it Buffalo.

Reminds me of Chiarelli when he was out on Hamilton and turned around and gave up a similar package for Griffin Reinhart.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is just inaccurate. Your evaluation of defensemen baffles me on a regular basis.

At least Chris Tanev was good for a while before the Flames signed him (and had a very good first year).

Ristolainen has never helped the Sabres in his own end. He made Buffalo substantially worse in basically every quantifiable defensive way. He has traits that GMs covet — size, shot, physicality — but he fails by the numbers and the eye test. His tenure in Buffalo was nothing but a disaster.

Numbers aside, I have been impressed watching Ristolainen maybe once ever. He is a brutally uncoordinated defenseman who constantly makes mistakes and is vastly overpaid.

[bubbsy]

Wow, for a dman that hasn't really become a steady/reliable guy, that seems to be a MASSIVE haul for buffalo.

Seems like a pretty strong trade for buffalo. wtf is philly doing?!

[Moneyhands23]

Good for buffalo honestly. The fans deserve better and maybe this is step 1

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Ristolainen is the very definition of a player that has extremely desirable traits but can't utilize them effectively. I think this trade also illustrates just how poor most NHL gm's are at evaluating talent.

He is huge
He is physical
He is a right handed shot
He is a capable offensive threat
He can log huge minutes

The problem is that he can't defend worth a lick, doesn't utilize his teammates effectively, and generally lacks the ability to process the game at a high level which is absolutely needed given the deployment he has received to date. He is a player that can and likely will find some success when not being relied upon so heavily and catered towards but that's certainly not a player you move the 13th overall pick for especially with one year left on his deal.

This is the best post of this thread probably.

I get the intrigue of Ristolainen. You look at him on the ice at times and feel like he should be a star but he's the definition of all the tools and no tool box.

I'll be honestly I've even been guilty of thinking "Maybe with a more stable partner in a second pairing role he would look much better", and I still think that's possible.

But you don't move the assets that the Flyers just moved for a guy you hope improves with a change of scenary.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

At least Chris Tanev was good for a while before the Flames signed him (and had a very good first year).

Ristolainen has never helped the Sabres in his own end. He made Buffalo substantially worse in basically every quantifiable defensive way. He has traits that GMs covet — size, shot, physicality — but he fails by the numbers and the eye test. His tenure in Buffalo was nothing but a disaster.

Numbers aside, I have been impressed watching Ristolainen maybe once ever. He is a brutally uncoordinated defenseman who constantly makes mistakes and is vastly overpaid.

Yes, his time in Buffalo has yielded poor results, but the whole team is a tire fire. Those tools alone make him better than Gostisbehere, and if harnessed in the right environment, where he doesn't have to be 'the guy' there is a lot to work with.

Gostisbehere is a flat out awful defenseman who can put up some points if you are willing to give him the icetime he doesn't deserve.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Philly fans have to be trying to pry the phone out of Chuck's hands right now.

[GreenLantern2814]

A 1st and 2nd and a warm body for Rasmus Ristolainen.

Good job, Buffalo GM, whoever you are today.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Philly fans have to be trying to pry the phone out of Chuck's hands right now.

This one made me

[SportsJunky]

Now Treliving has to scare Adams into thinking he will take Buffalo's guy at 12/13. Let's get some trade talks going between these two teams!

[dissentowner]

Where is our resident Flyers fan on this one?

[Stud_McCool]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Fletcher last 2 days:

Out: Ghostisbehere, Hagg, 2x2nd, 14 oa, 7th
In: Ristolainen

What in the world??
That's a big price to pay for a slight upgrade.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Well the Oilers don't use analytics at all, and they were rumored to be one of the teams interested. And I'm sure they aren't the only team that doesn't rely heavily on analytics.

Ristolainen is big, hits, blocks shots, and has played big minutes. There are are always going to be NHL GMs that value and overpay for that. Likely the ones that don't use analytics.

I'm sure there is a lot of difference between the public and private models, but pretty much there are no public models that show Ristolainen as having positive value.

Here is Dom Luszczyszyn from the Athletic's breakdown of the value given up by the Flyers this week to acquire Ristolainen.

I am unsure of Risto's value, but to suggest that the 7th rounder in 2022 is about equal, seems ridiculous. The picks in general seem to be way overvalued.
Edit: I suppose "Future Value" might be different than 2021 Value, but still seems really strange.

[kyuss275]

Buffalo with a massive home run. Don’t think he is worth anything near what flyers paid.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where is our resident Flyers fan on this one?

drinking

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Stud_McCool

What in the world??
That's a big price to pay for a slight upgrade.

That list leaves out the acquisition of Ryan Ellis - it’s still an appalling trade.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Treliving should be on the phone with Fletcher as he's clearly lost his marbles.

The Flyers are my other team. The two franchises are in pretty similar positions, with a fanbase and executive increasingly impatient with mediocre results. Lots of pressure on Fletcher - as there is on Treliving - to make big moves this offseason to turn things around.

So fans clamouring for Treliving to be more aggressive might want to consider that this is what a GM desperate to make big moves looks like. Be careful what you wish for.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

I liked the Ellis deal. This one is pretty bad.

Exactly what I came in here to post, with the addition of "I was neutral on Gostisbehere".

They were in the black overall, especially with the Kraken draft costing them nothing of substance. This is a HUGE dip into the red.

There will be a very good prospect available at 14. A 2nd rounder also has value. I know very little about how Hagg has fared over the past few years. But Ristolainen is terrible, even if you generously adjust for having to play in Buffalo all this time.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am actually quite interested to see if Ristolainen - "All the tools but no toolbox" - can benefit from a change of scenery. Maybe just getting away from Buffalo will help him find his game.


Quite the risk by Philadelphia. They paid quite a lot for this big risk.