[Rumour] Flames one of several teams showing interest in Christian Dvorak

[djsFlames]

Why am I supposed to like Dvorak more than a healthy Monahan?

We can't trade higher? You know, where we're not giving up offensive production.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

What league did he do this in?

The NHL.

He had 0.80 points per game last season. 0.60 points per game in his career so far and trending up.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I like Dvorak. I just think this is another type of trade to ensure the Flames finish 8th or 9th every year. Unless they are getting Marner in another trade as well this is just spinning their wheels imo. Course the team MO is just to be 8th place and with how weak the Pacific is maybe this is all they need to do to. Mission accomplished.

Dvorak for monahan without taking OEL IMO would be a huge win for the Flames. Players are fairly equal but contract heavily favours Dvorak

Monahan has had 7 surgeries and played almost his whole career on a line with Gaudreau. So many think Monahan is overrated and Johnny carries him year after year only to over value him in trades now. If we don’t take OEL I bet we have to give up a fair bit more to get it done. A couple 2nds possibly

[mile]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I would guess he would be relatively cheap, no? I don't see him as having a high upside, and definitely shouldn't be playing ahead of Backlund IMO.

He definitely would be playing on the 2nd line instead of Backlund, there is still room for growth on the offensive side IMO. His last two seasons would have been a 45-point pace over a full season.

Not saying he will be another Lindholm, but if there's any comparison it's that he's been playing on a struggling team without much talent and still hovering around 0.5 PPG. The hope would be that Dvorak would pop like Lindholm did - likely not to the same extent since Dvorak started his career later and produced slightly worse but I can see him being a 50+ point player in the right situation

Dvorak's first 5 seasons:
33P in 78GP
37P in 78GP
7P IN 20GP
38P in 70GP (0.54PPG)
31P in 56GP (0.55PPG)


Lindholm:
21P in 58GP
39P in 81GP
39P in 82GP
45P in 72GP (0.62PPG)
44P in 81GP (0.54PPG)

Garland is intriguing too, I like his motor. These are two players who are trending in the right direction that I wouldn't mind in our top six.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by mile

He definitely would be playing on the 2nd line instead of Backlund, there is still room for growth on the offensive side IMO. His last two seasons would have been a 45-point pace over a full season.

Not saying he will be another Lindholm, but if there's any comparison it's that he's been playing on a struggling team without much talent and still hovering around 0.5 PPG. The hope would be that Dvorak would pop like Lindholm did - likely not to the same extent since Dvorak started his career later and produced slightly worse but I can see him being a 50+ point player in the right situation

Dvorak's first 5 seasons:
33P in 78GP
37P in 78GP
7P IN 20GP
38P in 70GP (0.54PPG)
31P in 56GP (0.55PPG)


Lindholm:
21P in 58GP
39P in 81GP
39P in 82GP
45P in 72GP (0.62PPG)
44P in 81GP (0.54PPG)

Garland is intriguing too, I like his motor. These are two players who are trending in the right direction that I wouldn't mind in our top six.

Monahan has played with Gaudreau and his best year played on a pp with Tkachuk Gaudreau Lindholm and Norris winning Giordano. Only thing that separates monahan and Dvorak is that 1 great season Monahan had. He’s basically been a 60 point player his whole career playing with a ppg player his whole career and on a much more talented pp his whole career

Arizona has been a very bad team and Dvorak has never played with near the players Monahan has. Add Monahans countless injury concerns it’s a no brainer win trade straight up

[Bonded]

Monahan + two 2nds for Dvorak would plant me firmly in the fire Tre group lol.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Why stop there? He could probably have Treliving driven out to a buddy's farm land and put in a hole in the ground too if he wanted.

Is this a legit option!

[CliffFletcher]

People around here are going to bitterly disappointed in the return for Monahan. Treliving has been shopping him for over a year now. Safe to day the offered returns are modest. Other GMs know what they’re getting in Monahan, and that’s a heavy-footed, one-dimensional scorer with injury issues, trending in the wrong direction.

He brings nothing to the table if he isn’t scoring, so any team trading for him has to slot him in the top six. How many teams don’t have a #2C as good as Monahan has shown the last two seasons? Not many. And how many of those will be able to take on a $6.4m contract for 2 more seasons? Even fewer.

The Flames will be lucky to get a younger and cheaper piece like Dvorak for Monahan. The more likely scenario is another player with question marks and a similar cap hit.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Tre broadening his view and looking at Vancouver and Arizona players

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It is amazing how many people have no clue how talented Dvorak is. He should be a 1B, 2A player on a good team.

His production says third liner no matter how talented he is. 25 years old. While I may not be the biggest fan of Monahan, I’d keep Monny 100/100 if it were a one for one deal.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't see the correlation? Lindholm was 23 when he had his breakout year. Dvorak is 25 and still waiting for his.

I also don't see anyone hating on the idea of Dvorak, just stating what you are getting versus what you are giving up. If the intent is to reunite the London Knight line, maybe we should be the ones trading a player to make it happen? Trade Tkachuk to Arizona for Keller, Chychrun, and Hayton. Let them deal with the other angle of trying to pry Marner out of Toronto.

I mean if you take a minute to look at their point totals in the first few years of their careers you would clearly see it is quite a fair comparison..

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by mile

He definitely would be playing on the 2nd line instead of Backlund, there is still room for growth on the offensive side IMO. His last two seasons would have been a 45-point pace over a full season.

Not saying he will be another Lindholm, but if there's any comparison it's that he's been playing on a struggling team without much talent and still hovering around 0.5 PPG. The hope would be that Dvorak would pop like Lindholm did - likely not to the same extent since Dvorak started his career later and produced slightly worse but I can see him being a 50+ point player in the right situation

Dvorak's first 5 seasons:
33P in 78GP
37P in 78GP
7P IN 20GP
38P in 70GP (0.54PPG)
31P in 56GP (0.55PPG)


Lindholm:
21P in 58GP
39P in 81GP
39P in 82GP
45P in 72GP (0.62PPG)
44P in 81GP (0.54PPG)

Garland is intriguing too, I like his motor. These are two players who are trending in the right direction that I wouldn't mind in our top six.

Well, he started off producing more than Backlund (though not exactly fair with Backlund having to break-in under Brent Sutter). However, Backlund has posted better numbers over every single one of those years (well, last year essentially being a tie with Backlund ahead by a point). However, I bet if the Flames utilized Backlund differently, he would also produce more. Starting in the defensive zone and tasked with shutting down the opposing top players has probably reduced Backlund's scoring.


Also noteworthy that with the exception of Tkachuk (and the idiotic Ward experiment with Backlund as the #1 RW), Backlund has essentially played with a revolving door of wingers, many of whom aren't even in the NHL any longer.


I don't know, I don't see him playing above Backlund, but I will be happy for the Flames to get an upgrade if you are right. Maybe he is looking like he is about to bust-out like Lindholm was. Maybe the change of scenery will get Dvorak to become a high-level 2C (which I think Backlund is now). However, maybe he doesn't. I personally don't ever really notice Dvorak much to make me think he is a really good player.


I am open-minded about acquiring him, as long as the Flames don't overpay. I am open-minded about most moves, and sometimes moves that you don't think will work out end up being great moves in the end. Hopefully - if the Flames do acquire Dvorak - this will end up being a great move.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Monahan has played with Gaudreau and his best year played on a pp with Tkachuk Gaudreau Lindholm and Norris winning Giordano. Only thing that separates monahan and Dvorak is that 1 great season Monahan had. He’s basically been a 60 point player his whole career playing with a ppg player his whole career and on a much more talented pp his whole career

Hahahaha. Yeah, all that separates Dvorak and Monahan is a great season, and 20 points every other season. Again, Dvorak has never cracked the 40 point plateau or the 20 goal plateau. Save the twisting of PPG, because you won't apply that same equitable measure to Monahan and will dream up some other stuff to dismiss his injuries, which clearly impacted his production.

Arizona has been a very bad team and Dvorak has never played with near the players Monahan has. Add Monahans countless injury concerns it’s a no brainer win trade straight up

Since when are Taylor Hall and Phil Kessel junk players? Also recall OEL getting Norris consideration in the past. I do get sick of seeing these new fan favorites being blown up with claims they had no one to play with when their lineups have had quality talent on them. They don't score because of the systems they play or they just aren't that good. I also get sick of seeing our guys continually run down for having no talent, but these lesser players pumped up to be better with little to support the claim other than the "change of scenery" mantra.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Monahan + two 2nds for Dvorak would plant me firmly in the fire Tre group lol.

True.

But Monahan + 2nd for Dvorak + Garland would make me happy.

[ComixZone]

I’m not the biggest fan of Monahan (but a lot of that is to be blamed on his injury history, I believe), but if we move Monahan for Dvorak AND add to the deal?

No. I’d much sooner see Monahan come back and get a (hopefully) healthy season in. Also, if the Flames could stop playing injured players in meaningless games, that’d be great.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

A big time NO to getting OEL.

I suspect Arizona is hearing a lot of that. The contract is terrible.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Hahahaha. Yeah, all that separates Dvorak and Monahan is a great season, and 20 points every other season. Again, Dvorak has never cracked the 40 point plateau or the 20 goal plateau.
Since when are Taylor Hall and Phil Kessel junk players? Also recall OEL getting Norris consideration in the past. I do get sick of seeing these new fan favorites being blown up with claims they had no one to play with when their lineups have had quality talent on them. They don't score because of the systems they play or they just aren't that good. I also get sick of seeing our guys continually run down for having no talent, but these lesser players pumped up to be better with little to support the claim other than the "change of scenery" mantra.

Playing for a bad team cuts both ways, either the guy pops or he gets shuffled to appropriate minutes and production suffers. Dvorak had all time highs for ice time and still produced as a low end second line center (50th overall). I doubt he get 18+ minutes on a better team.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

True.

But Monahan + 2nd for Dvorak + Garland would make me happy.

That is a much more interesting trade.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Playing for a bad team cuts both ways, either the guy pops or he gets shuffled to appropriate minutes and production suffers. Dvorak had all time highs for ice time and still produced as a low end second line center (50th overall). I doubt he get 18+ minutes on a better team.

That's kind of where I think he is. He's a low end 2nd line center, while Monahan is a low end first line center. The difference between the two is substantial. I wish we would recognize what we have and what we would be getting. Dvorak would be a Backlund replacement, not a Monahan replacement.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Bonded

That is a much more interesting trade.

Not for Arizona it’s not.