Are NTCs and NMCs Ruining the Game?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

A lot of players don't make it to UFA because they are traded to where they are willing to sign away their UFA years like Stone.

I also don't think anyone is suggesting Toronto has trouble with free agents. Wouldn't mind league min Jumbo or Spezza ect.

Sure. But the narrative is it's small CAD teams vs. the rest of the league.

No. It's the best few teams (most recently BOS, PIT, WAS, VGK; before them CHI, SJ, DET, etc.) and always PHI, NYR, TOR vs. the rest of the league.

We are no worse off than ~25 other teams. Good teams attract good players. When we've looked promising, we've had no problem attracting decent talent.


Which players with an NTC or UFA-extension have we really missed out on?
Stone
Kadri
B Richards?
S Niedermayer (I recall we were somewhat in the mix?)

I'm sure there are a lot more, but have we ever been in the position where we were 1 big move from going over the top? (Yes, Niedermayer after the lockout might have done it...)? Who else have we missed?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Sure. But the narrative is it's small CAD teams vs. the rest of the league.

No. It's the best few teams (most recently BOS, PIT, WAS, VGK; before them CHI, SJ, DET, etc.) and always PHI, NYR, TOR vs. the rest of the league.

We are no worse off than ~25 other teams. Good teams attract good players. When we've looked promising, we've had no problem attracting decent talent.


Which players with an NTC or UFA-extension have we really missed out on?
Stone
Kadri
B Richards?
S Niedermayer (I recall we were somewhat in the mix?)

I'm sure there are a lot more, but have we ever been in the position where we were 1 big move from going over the top? (Yes, Niedermayer after the lockout might have done it...)? Who else have we missed?

We wouldn't really know for sure how many NTCs affected the Flames. The normal thing to do would be to ask the player with a modified NTC to submit their list and then try to work out a deal with those teams. The way Treliving and the Leafs went about it was backwards. That's why it got publicized that Calgary was on his list. That sort of information isn't really supposed to be made public, but sometimes it leaks out... not always though. A lot of times when a player with a modified NTC is on the block, the Flames are probably told they are out of the running before negotiations ever get started and we never hear about it.

I think it was maybe hubris on Treliving's part to not get that sorted out first and assumed he could convince Kadri to waive for Calgary. To be fair, some people on the inside said that putting Calgary on his list wasn't personal, it was that he didn't want to leave Toronto so he did what he could to try and avoid any trade. Colorado may have just have easily been on his list if Kadri had the heads up that they were trying to trade for him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

We wouldn't really know for sure how many NTCs affected the Flames. The normal thing to do would be to ask the player with a modified NTC to submit their list and then try to work out a deal with those teams. The way Treliving and the Leafs went about it was backwards. That's why it got publicized that Calgary was on his list. That sort of information isn't really supposed to be made public, but sometimes it leaks out... not always though. A lot of times when a player with a modified NTC is on the block, the Flames are probably told they are out of the running before negotiations ever get started and we never hear about it.

I think it was maybe hubris on Treliving's part to not get that sorted out first and assumed he could convince Kadri to waive for Calgary. To be fair, some people on the inside said that putting Calgary on his list wasn't personal, it was that he didn't want to leave Toronto so he did what he could to try and avoid any trade. Colorado may have just have easily been on his list if Kadri had the heads up that they were trying to trade for him.

Kadri was indeed playing games like you said - he was trying to avoid being traded at all. But IIRC NTC lists are provided at the beginning of each season so everyone would have known. It’s just been so normal for player to waive with the right incentives.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

We wouldn't really know for sure how many NTCs affected the Flames. The normal thing to do would be to ask the player with a modified NTC to submit their list and then try to work out a deal with those teams. The way Treliving and the Leafs went about it was backwards. That's why it got publicized that Calgary was on his list. That sort of information isn't really supposed to be made public, but sometimes it leaks out... not always though. A lot of times when a player with a modified NTC is on the block, the Flames are probably told they are out of the running before negotiations ever get started and we never hear about it.

I think it was maybe hubris on Treliving's part to not get that sorted out first and assumed he could convince Kadri to waive for Calgary. To be fair, some people on the inside said that putting Calgary on his list wasn't personal, it was that he didn't want to leave Toronto so he did what he could to try and avoid any trade. Colorado may have just have easily been on his list if Kadri had the heads up that they were trying to trade for him.

The process with an NTC player would vary based on circumstances. I suspect in a lot of cases GMs want a deal to be pretty close to agreed before they take it to the player, because it's not a great conversation to have unless you are fully committed to moving the player.

In Kadri's case, I'd guess the sales pitch was: you get to know now and have time to sort out life in your new city. Otherwise, the trade could happen anytime (ie. during training camp or in the midst of the season).


How many trades have even happened involving players with NTC or MNTC?

And how many TDL/final year trades turned into extensions?

These are rarely a good way to build a team. Sometimes they can help put you over the top, though.