I think you’re greatly overestimating how many people are irreligious. In Canada, only 8 per cent of people say they’re atheist, and 5 per cent agnostic. 55 per cent of Canadians say religion is important to their lives, with 29 per cent saying it’s very important.
Don’t let your social circle or forums like this give you a false picture of the makeup of the general population.
I think you’re greatly overestimating how many people are irreligious. In Canada, only 8 per cent of people say they’re atheist, and 5 per cent agnostic. 55 per cent of Canadians say religion is important to their lives, with 29 per cent saying it’s very important.
Don’t let your social circle or forums like this give you a false picture of the makeup of the general population.
I think you’re greatly overestimating how many people are irreligious. In Canada, only 8 per cent of people say they’re atheist, and 5 per cent agnostic. 55 per cent of Canadians say religion is important to their lives, with 29 per cent saying it’s very important.
Don’t let your social circle or forums like this give you a false picture of the makeup of the general population.
From 1971 to 2011 the nonreligious grew ~4.5% per year from 4% of the population to 24%, and from the number you linked (29% in 2018) it looks like the trend has continued since then and if you break it out by age demographic you see an even more massive shift.
I would be quite surprised if within the millennial and Gen Z generations the amount of religious people wasn't well under 50%.
I accept that I probably surround myself with like minded people, but in my social group of mostly Millennials and Zs, the number of church attending religious people is functionally 0. There are a couple non-practicing members, as in they couldn't tell you the last time they went to church and don't own a bible, and don't follow the religion but they were baptized at birth so they're 'religious'
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Did you by chance capture this data in a form you can share? This is a really interesting way of looking at it that I'd like to be able to share around.
I think it's a bit ridiculous.
Basically all major Muslim countries are represented except Turkey.
The Christian nations all in three regions: Caribbean, Sub-Saharan Africa, and Oceania. The possible lone exception is Lebanon, which is majority Muslim now, but their government is by law 50/50. Most of the African nations practice a blend of animism and Christianity so it's hard to say how Christian they really are.
I've always found it very strange that many of the hardcore communist nations are anti-gay. In the west we associate gay rights groups with the left wing. I guess, when places like China turned to communism, the world, generally, was anti-gay. They then became locked into the doctrines they had at the time.
Yea, there is a commonality at the extremes of politics. Homophobia, racism, anti-semitism, and ultimately Genocide.
I respect your personal position and your ability to disagree with some of the more hateful teachings of the catholic church.
However, this is exactly what I was talking about.
In some countries where the catholic faith is dominant and being gay is against the law, punishments range from a few years in prison or a psychiatric hospital to life in prison.
Which Catholic countries are those? Name them please.
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I respect your personal position and your ability to disagree with some of the more hateful teachings of the catholic church.
However, this is exactly what I was talking about.
In some countries where the catholic faith is dominant and being gay is against the law, punishments range from a few years in prison or a psychiatric hospital to life in prison.
Yes, there are a handful of countries (8 I believe, primarily Islam) where punishments include whipping/lashes, stoning, and death. Congratulations, your religion is not sentencing people to death. It's also not stopping anyone from putting people in prison for life. So is that really a moral high ground you want to take? Like, we may be bad, but we're not killing people, so we're actually pretty good?
Knowing what Muslims have been through in 1st world countries, it's incredible that a Catholic might pretend for even a moment their religion is "the whipping boy." I'm sorry people make jokes while your religion of choice relegates whole sections of the population to hell and nurtures a welcoming space for the imprisonment of gay men and the rape of young boys. That must be difficult compared to being profiled, beat up, told you're not welcome, or actually killed, all of which people in other religions have actually experienced frequently in the western world because they follow that religion. Yes, I'm sure jokes hurt, but I have a difficult time believing any catholic that views themselves or their religion as victims because "jokes." Especially when the actual victims of discrimination here, the LGBTQ+ community, are being discriminated against by your religion.
If you want to talk about religions that are much worse than Catholics in their treatment of homosexuality, why not also mention the religions that are much better? United, Presbyterian, and much of Judaism outside Orthodoxy all seem to have figured it out, to name a few.
What stops a Catholic who disagrees with so much of the Catholic church from leaving and joining United or Presbyterian, I wonder? I have never really understood this. What is so good about this version of Christianity, that you would actively support an organization you disagree with instead of finding one with values closer to your own?
Quit reading after the inaccuracy in the first sentence. Teaching hate?
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I was never really in a religious frame in my life. My parents have never gone to church, I went a few times growing up with my neighbours because I wanted to hang out with there kids not sure I really took anything they said too literally. I went to a Catholic high school because the location/circumstances... worked better for my personal situation, after grade 10 I opted out of religious studies. Now years later I've actually spent a fair amount of time listening to podcasts that compare and contrast the origins of religions because I find the topic pretty interesting.
All of that said, the two biggest influences on me being out talking about being an atheist instead of just declining to think about or consider religion, were first and foremost hearing others willing to make similar declarations. But also almost as important was my inability to comprehend how religious people square their own personal morality. I've heard it so many times "So and so is a good person because they have faith." "I did x because that's what Jesus would do"... And I think myself how can these things possibly seen as litmus tests for morality? How can someone think there is some list of rules that eternally define what a moral action is? The inability of religious people to grapple with and engage in real thought about what is good just blows my mind, and then the way that they hold themselves as some moral standard while refusing to independently consider their own moral framework is laughable.
I volunteer at our local Foodbank. The accommodation and a material amount of the donations is provided by the Catholic Church and its community.
When founded, and to this day it was funded and supported by denominations across the Christian faiths.
Yet, it provides food, support and guidance on welfare to the wider community. We package up Kosher and Halal food parcels.
As an almost completely lapsed Catholic, I find many tenets of the faith abhorrent. This statement being one of those things.
But as others with critical thought, I reject the tenets I find abhorrent. I know some Priests that have done the same. I remember back in Calgary when my Dad, had terrible drinking problems and the violence that accompanied that, our Priest provided support to my Mom and after time had passed with no prospect of an end to the terror, he supported my Mom in filing for divorce.
These organisations, Catholic or otherwise, you don’t have to buy in it all. I don’t. But I do try to take active involvement in the aspects of it that are good and congruent with my moral compass.
I very much doubt there is a god, and am almost certain, there is no god that is anything like any man made religion (all of them). I don’t expect to be burning in hell as a consequence, but there are elements, I find helpful and I engage in them and have made wonderful friendships as a result and appreciate the support I got as a child when I needed it most.
I think it's pretty valid that churches do a lot of good, but unfortunately the nature of their institutions make it difficult to separate from the harms done by othering everyone else.
Generally I would encourage people in your situation to try secular humanism out. A lot of organization attaching Atheism to to their name are often more focus on liberal rights, Humanist are generally more focus on community and service. If those are the things that interest you in religion you could probably do a lot of good by supporting those goals in organization that don't make it part of their mission to exclude and discriminate.
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I think one thing missed here is this is the most progressive stance the church has ever taken on gay marriage. This is still very problematic especially for children who are gay growing up in the church so they still have a long way to go.
I don’t think people actually read the Vatican’s release.
It is more progressive then Canada in the year 1998. https://press.vatican.va/content/sal...00330.html#ing
Nothing about burning in hell and instead talking about how God loves everyone and recognizes the benefits of same sex unions but insists they are sins and can’t be blessed.
It reads like an organization that is too cowardly to make the change that they know is right. For the Church to be only 25 years behind society is actually remarkable. They are 50 years behind on premarital sex and 125 years behind on the treatment of women.
It’s unfortunate that it’s going to take decades of Catholics demanding better which may not happen as Catholics instead just leave.
I've always found it very strange that many of the hardcore communist nations are anti-gay. In the west we associate gay rights groups with the left wing. I guess, when places like China turned to communism, the world, generally, was anti-gay. They then became locked into the doctrines they had at the time.
The drawback of dictatorships of any variety is they are happy to throw some group under the bus to appease the masses, what they always means in practice is which ever group the masses never liked much in the first place, Jews, blacks gays.
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Catholicism might be declining in North America and Europe (though not as dramatically as you might think), but it’s growing globally. The next pope will almost certainly be African.
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Catholicism might be declining in North America and Europe (though not as dramatically as you might think), but it’s growing globally. The next pope will almost certainly be African.
The catholic church needs the fresh meat of poverty and lack of education to prey on.
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One of the most one sided debates I've ever seen was this one with Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens arguing the side against the question "Is the Catholic Church a force for good", the votes for this question before the debate starts and how the numbers changed at the end is still to this day the biggest change in an audience vote for one of these Intelligence Squared debates.
Highly recommended if you haven't seen it, the impassioned speech by Fry is amazing.
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Just so people are aware, the Vatican only really represent Roman Catholics. There are plenty of Catholic sects who don't follow the leadership of the Pope, let alone the rest of Christians.
I see a lot of broad strokes against Christianity here and I really hope it's not based on the vocal minority you see in the media doing stupid things in the name of Jesus. It's almost like generalising Muslims based on the extremists who were behind 9/11.
IMO true Christian teachings tells you to care for your fellow man and are closer to left wing beliefs than many here would believe
I see a lot of broad strokes against Christianity here and I really hope it's not based on the vocal minority you see in the media doing stupid things in the name of Jesus. It's almost like generalising Muslims based on the extremists who were behind 9/11.
It is curious how expressions of hatred for Christianity are acceptable in certain quarters where hatred of Islam is unacceptable. Presumably because the latter is regarded as bigotry while the former is not.
Not sure how people purporting to be champions of reason square that circle. Something to do with race? Which will be an odd stance to take as Christianity becomes majority non-white. I expect animus towards the Church will be less socially acceptable once the college of cardinals selects a Black pontiff (which is one of the reasons it’s a near-certainty).
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IMO true Christian teachings tells you to care for your fellow man and are closer to left wing beliefs than many here would believe
Liberation Theology was one of the driving forces of socialism in Latin America in the 60s-80s, but it seems to have disappeared from the popular consciousness.
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If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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