Multiple Victims Shot in Toronto's Greektown

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Gun used came from the States and then was sold to him by a gang member.

Source?

[CaptainCrunch]

Was announced on CTV news net this morning


https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toront...urce-1.4027129

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by SebC

Did you read the article Nyah posted?

Canadians are buying guns legally, then re-selling them. Better tracking makes it harder for them to do that, and increases the risk to those who will ignore the rules.

It doesn't increase the risk to criminals selling firearms outside of the law. It is already illegal to buy a firearm as an unauthorized person, it is already illegal to sell a firearm to an unauthorized person and it is already illegal to engage in a straw purchase. C-71 doesn't change that whatsoever

That CBC seems to try and tie all domestically sourced firearms to license holders selling firearms on the black market with no substantiation, aside from some very generic statements from a TPS detective (not the RCMP CFP or NWEST).

Domestically sourced numbers might have increased, but it includes the following:

- Theft from licensed holders
- Theft from retailers
- Firearms purchased fraudulently with stolen license info
- Straw purchases

C-71 doesn't really address any of those. While there is a provision for private sales to require a transfer number, that transfer number would not be tied to a specific firearm (or so the government has claimed). Secondly, someone who is intent on selling a firearm to an unauthorized person isn't going to be calling in to the CFP for a transfer number.

As a side note, there was an access to information request a little while ago that got the RCMP to give up the information on the source of recovered firearms for the Western provinces. It showed, using actual numbers, that they were able to trace about 30% of recovered firearms and of those, half were sourced domestically. So 15% of firearms recovered in the Western region were domestically sourced (not broken down by the categories above). I imagine it would be very enlightening to see the national statistics and the Ontario statistics.

[Zarley]

I hadn't heard this tidbit before:

In the final moments of a mass shooting on a crowded Toronto street, attacker Faisal Hussain came face to face with a frightened resident. Armed with a handgun and moments from his own death, he told the man his life would be spared. “Don’t worry, I’m not going to shoot you," he said. Neighbourhood resident Jaspal Singh was cutting through a laneway on his way to his restaurant on the busy Danforth strip when he ran into the gunman.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-killers-path/

It certainly brings a racial or religious dimension to the shooter's motive into play though.

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by SebC

Did you read the article Nyah posted?

Canadians are buying guns legally, then re-selling them. Better tracking makes it harder for them to do that, and increases the risk to those who will ignore the rules.

You know, I keep seeing the same talking point being brought up by various articles, but it was stated by Goodale, and when a FOIA request was sent in to see the proof these "statistics" that there is a sharp rise in legal firearms owners selling their guns to unlicensed people and gangs for a massive profit, they couldn't come up with the data.

Stats Can tracks every imaginable statistic on this, and there is no discernable stat to prove this claim, yet it's being bandied about as the gospel now since a government official stated it as "fact". What a sad state of affairs.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Meanwhile, the Americans have a totally different number for illegal guns in Canada sourced from the US. They say it's 98%

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...206-story.html

[OMG!WTF!]

The letter written by the Hussain family wasn't actually written by the family but by a "spokesperson" for The National Council of Canadian Muslims...


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...mily-statement


It sounded at little too quick and a little too scripted to come from a grieving family. While I don't like the Sun's approach to this, it's interesting to note the facts as they come up.

[CaptainCrunch]

On one hand its expected that the Muslim community would react fast to this just because of the name of the shooter, they would want to get on top of this before they could lose control of the message and the narrative.

As soon as a Muslim name is popped forward or a near Muslim name the first leap of logic is ISIS or Terrorism, which puts a unjustified bulls eye on all Muslims.

However the problem with a statement by a lawyer or one that sounds too professional is that the next general thought is "What are they hiding", and "Is this statement from the heart".

Now with the whole "He was selective shooting" story going around, the rumor of "Suspicious online activity", oh and his friends saying that he was a "Great guy" very "Happy" always eager to help, after the whole mental illness thing will make people more suspicious.

Even the gentlemen that wrote the statement comes across as suspicious with the whole "I'm not going to comment to the paper that wrote a piece on the killer with the rumor of online activity"

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The letter written by the Hussain family wasn't actually written by the family but by a "spokesperson" for The National Council of Canadian Muslims...


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...mily-statement


It sounded at little too quick and a little too scripted to come from a grieving family. While I don't like the Sun's approach to this, it's interesting to note the facts as they come up.

A personally drafted statement at that time would likely have been a bad choice. Think about the interviews from grieving father of Texas school shooter.
In some sort of similar position I would have legal council draft a statement.
Good choice, in my opinion.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I hadn't heard this tidbit before:



https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-killers-path/

It certainly brings a racial or religious dimension to the shooter's motive into play though.

How does it bring a racial or religious dimension into the shooter's motive?

Singh is a Sikh last name, which is an entirely different religion from Islam.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

A personally drafted statement at that time would likely have been a bad choice. Think about the interviews from grieving father of Texas school shooter.
In some sort of similar position I would have legal council draft a statement.
Good choice, in my opinion.

It's not really the fact that it was written by a spokesperson even though it is very unusual for a family not otherwise represented by the media to catch up with a spokesperson the day after an event such as this. The bigger issue is that it was presented as coming from the family by the media and not by a completely biased spokesperson. However the even bigger issue is that it pins this on mental illness as if it's a foregone conclusion. It's like, of course it was the mental illness, like that should explain everything. It kind of throws mental illness under the bus in the same way people jump to conclusions about Arabic names and terrorism. Like of course he was a terrorist. He has a Muslim name. Factually speaking people with mental illness commit fewer crimes than people who are healthy. Similarly not all Muslims and in fact a very small percentage, are terrorists. Just seems like a double standard. Just seems like maybe waiting until the investigation concludes might be the best way to go.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

A personally drafted statement at that time would likely have been a bad choice. Think about the interviews from grieving father of Texas school shooter.
In some sort of similar position I would have legal council draft a statement.
Good choice, in my opinion.

I think many people will note a significant difference between having counsel draft a statement and having an activist who is credited with framing a new narrative for Muslims release a statement.

Toss in the prior interest from all three levels of law enforcement and the statements from friends that seem to contradict the "official" family statement and it's hard not to get the impression that the family/Muslims community was trying to do damage control from the second he was identified.

[icecube]

The families of white mass shooters don't have to do the same degree of "damage control" nor do they have to apologize on behalf of all white people. White mass shooters aren't called terrorists. They're called "loners". Huge double standard there.

Hard to blame them for immediately going into damage control mode. Brown people literally cross their fingers and say to themselves "please don't be a brown guy" every time there's a shooting of this sort. This is the damn truth.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by icecube

The families of white mass shooters don't have to do the same degree of "damage control" nor do they have to apologize on behalf of all white people. White mass shooters aren't called terrorists. They're called "loners". Huge double standard there.

Hard to blame them for immediately going into damage control mode. Brown people literally cross their fingers and say to themselves "please don't be a brown guy" every time there's a shooting of this sort. This is the damn truth.

Guess what. People with mental illness cross their fingers too. You sure the family sought out this particular spokesperson just out of the blue? Or vice versa?

[icecube]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Guess what. People with mental illness cross their fingers too. You sure the family sought out this particular spokesperson just out of the blue? Or vice versa?

The difference is that people with mental illness dont have to worry about being targets of retribution or public vitriol, unless their skin happens to be the wrong color.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by icecube

The difference is that people with mental illness dont have to worry about being targets of retribution or public vitriol, unless their skin happens to be the wrong color.

Absolutely wrong. Like so very very wrong. Just stop with that bs.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Absolutely wrong. Like so very very wrong. Just stop with that bs.

How is it wrong? How is it BS? Do you honestly think that people with mental illness are under attack to the same degree as muslims or others who happen to bare even a slight resemblance to someone with a middle eastern appearance?

I dont think someone with bipolar or schizophrenia has to worry about being harassed or beaten up or having a brick thrown through their window after a shooting happens. They aren't targeted with that kind of harassment.

Why does it make people so uncomfortable to bring up racism?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by icecube

How is it wrong? How is it BS? Do you honestly think that people with mental illness are under attack to the same degree as muslims or others who happen to bare even a slight resemblance to someone with a middle eastern appearance?

I dont think someone with bipolar or schizophrenia has to worry about being harassed or beaten up or having a brick thrown through their window after a shooting happens. They aren't targeted with that kind of harassment.

Why does it make people so uncomfortable to bring up racism?

If you walk down the street in Calgary you will see people are much more likely to be sketched out by someone exhibiting some sort of mental illness than anyone who resembles middle eastern appearance.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by icecube

How is it wrong? How is it BS? Do you honestly think that people with mental illness are under attack to the same degree as muslims or others who happen to bare even a slight resemblance to someone with a middle eastern appearance?

I dont think someone with bipolar or schizophrenia has to worry about being harassed or beaten up or having a brick thrown through their window after a shooting happens. They aren't targeted with that kind of harassment.

Why does it make people so uncomfortable to bring up racism?

Yes. It's wrong because you don't know what you're talking about. All the issues people bring up when it comes to racism also apply to people with mental illness. More mentally ill people are in jail than in hospitals. More are homeless, more are victims of attack, more are unemployed and the list goes on. Just cause you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. You're 100% about racism and visible minority discrimination. That's the end of your world. Check it out yourself. Mental illness is equally difficult for many of the same reasons. You just don't see it cause you're not looking.


Actually what's more is you just have to look at the response to this shooting incident. By your own admission you and all "brown people" breathed a big sigh of relief when you heard a third party tell you it was mental illness. You have no idea if it was diagnosed as such, you don't know what it was in fact diagnosed as, whether it was actually psychosis, or depression or anything regarding the nature of it. You probably think well, anyone committing a murder is obviously crazy...no need to have a medical doctor diagnose that, crazy is as crazy does. So yaaay we're off the hook. It was blanket crazy people. That doesn't seem a bit off to you?



I'll bet you right now most of the people you talk to think Vince Li and that kid who killed 5 people in Brentwood should be executed.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by icecube

How is it wrong? How is it BS? Do you honestly think that people with mental illness are under attack to the same degree as muslims or others who happen to bare even a slight resemblance to someone with a middle eastern appearance?

I dont think someone with bipolar or schizophrenia has to worry about being harassed or beaten up or having a brick thrown through their window after a shooting happens. They aren't targeted with that kind of harassment.

Why does it make people so uncomfortable to bring up racism?

I find it ironic that you're arguing about people dismissing the race factor when something like this happens, but then pretty much do the same thing by dismissing discrimination against people with mental illness when the same thing happens.