[Rumour] Brooks: Hamonic could be had. Fox not available.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Sorry, I must have missed the other member of the solid 3-4 in your post. I assume it wasn't Brodie on the left side paired with his clone Brodie on the right side...

The team identified that they were lacking starting level goaltending, a scoring right winger and a solid top four D last off-season. Treliving is of the belief that centres and defencemen are the most important building blocks, and if he couldn't get all three of the Flames' top needs, at least he filled the top two.

The Flames would have been better off as an overall team going with Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Stone, Kulak and finding a reliable 6 defenseman (with their deep prospect pool fighting for a spot), then using the 1st and two 2nds to acquire a 25-30 goal scoring winger. And if you need proof of that, look no further than last year's failure of a season and the fact that the Flames are now shopping a defenseman to fill the hole up front.

[Freeway]

All due respect, but everyone lies around the draft and trade deadline time. We don't "know" that the Flames are shopping anybody.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mike F

The Flames would have been better off as an overall team going with Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Stone, Kulak and finding a reliable 6 defenseman (with their deep prospect pool fighting for a spot), then using the 1st and two 2nds to acquire a 25-30 goal scoring winger. And if you need proof of that, look no further than last year's failure of a season and the fact that the Flames are now shopping a defenseman to fill the hole up front.

Hamonic was the second best defenceman in the team last year (and not far behind Gio). Stone I said overrated in that department and none of the others even have much at all.

[Erick Estrada]

Disagree about Hamonic being the 2nd best defenseman on the team. Hamilton was a lot better. Hamonic's worst was much worse than Hamiltons and Dougie contributed offensively. I think the Flames have been a pretty sloppy defensive team for years so just seeing a guy play average defensively with zero offensive upside looks good to some people. I'm not saying he's a bad player as he's a solid 4th defender and played as you would expect of a solid 4th guy but talking about him like he was really good is revisionist history.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hamonic was the second best defenceman in the team last year (and not far behind Gio). Stone I said overrated in that department and none of the others even have much at all.

I think you are underselling him. He was maybe even better than Gio and probably top 20 in the NHL. Way better than Hamilton

Really looking forward to seeing what BT can get for a stud like Hamonic. The possibilities are really endless, his value is through the roof. Skinner and Hanifin? Is that enough for a guy who is almost on par with Giordano and making half the money and is six years younger? Does Carolina need to add to a package of Skinner and Hanifin to get a stud like Travis?

There I go undervaluing Travis again, only Hanifin and Skinner....ridiculous. With the high demand for Hamonic, I would try to get Lindholm thrown in as well. Flames may need to add the Hudler 4th rounder. Final offer to Carolina with the threat that we will shop Hamonic's services elsewhere

To Carolina - Hamonic and Florida's 2018 4th rounder

To Calgary - Skinner, Hanifin, Lindholm


Gaudreau Monahan Ferland
Tkachuk Backlund Frolik
Skinner Jankowski Lindholm
Bennett D. Ryan Lazar

Giordano Hamilton
Hanifin Brodie
Kulak Stone
Anderson

Realistic when you have a gem like Hamonic to shop around.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hamonic was the second best defenceman in the team last year (and not far behind Gio). Stone I said overrated in that department and none of the others even have much at all.

Are you ####in drunk?

This is another level of ludicrous. Like Jesus h

[Deegee]

Originally Posted by Mike F

The Flames would have been better off as an overall team going with Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Stone, Kulak and finding a reliable 6 defenseman (with their deep prospect pool fighting for a spot), then using the 1st and two 2nds to acquire a 25-30 goal scoring winger. And if you need proof of that, look no further than last year's failure of a season and the fact that the Flames are now shopping a defenseman to fill the hole up front.

Bang on assessment IMO.

How much better would the Flames be had they kept their draft picks and promoted Andersson? Sure as hell would have made today more enjoyable.

Either way, Flames need to consider moving defense to improve their forward position instead of burning more draft picks. The organization has done a good job with the defense group, but they need to address their forwards.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mike F

The Flames would have been better off as an overall team going with Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Stone, Kulak and finding a reliable 6 defenseman (with their deep prospect pool fighting for a spot), then using the 1st and two 2nds to acquire a 25-30 goal scoring winger. And if you need proof of that, look no further than last year's failure of a season and the fact that the Flames are now shopping a defenseman to fill the hole up front.

I don't see how this proves anything of the sort, especially since we don't really know which defenseman the Flames may be shopping, if they are actively shopping one at all. I think the possibility to use a defenseman to upgrade the forwards is more a product of the development of their defensive prospects than it is some sort of indication of a prior mistake.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Deegee

Bang on assessment IMO.

How much better would the Flames be had they kept their draft picks and promoted Andersson? Sure as hell would have made today more enjoyable...

Yes. That is the ultimate goal, after all.

[The Original FFIV]

It’s easy to say we should have spent our assets on a scoring forward but how many were available for the assets we had available? Teams with scoring hang onto it and I don’t recall teams dealing scoring for futures. Hamonic was available for futures so BT decided to improve the team with the assets he felt comfortable which were given up for a player that was available at the price he was willing to pay.

Yes, we could have sat on our hands and done nothing but we would have had question marks on the back end. Granted we would have our picks but we could have been worse without Hamonic and the season would have been longer than it already was. Believe that hamonic was brought in to add leadership to the room which is hard to put a price on.

Is a package with Connor Brown worth it? Would have to be a significant add but maybe Brown is one of the better Rh RW available which makes him more valuable. Clearly we need a Rh rw and the demand may exceed supply which might be an expensive add. Up to the team to determine the cost vs benefit.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't see how this proves anything of the sort, especially since we don't really know which defenseman the Flames may be shopping, if they are actively shopping one at all. I think the possibility to use a defenseman to upgrade the forwards is more a product of the development of their defensive prospects than it is some sort of indication of a prior mistake.

Are you saying that the Flames are surprised that one of Andersson, Kylington, Fox or Valimaki have developed in the last year? When the Flames snagged Hamonic for the bargain price of a 1st and two seconds they had as their assets on the backend

Valimaki - 1st round pick
Fox - US world Junior participant and over PPG dman as a freshman
Andersson - 2015 2nd round pick who just finished a productive 1st pro season.
Kylington - 2015 2nd round pick who had 2 pro seasons under his belt.

If a NHL GM cannot forsee that one of those assets could develop they are not really a very good GM. The development of the defensive prospects, or at least one of them should have been forseeable.

[Deegee]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes. That is the ultimate goal, after all.

Good job cherry picking. I would expect more from you.

The fact we had no draft pick in the first just highlights the overpayment for a position the Flames were already strong in.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think you are underselling him. He was maybe even better than Gio and probably top 20 in the NHL. Way better than Hamilton

Really looking forward to seeing what BT can get for a stud like Hamonic. The possibilities are really endless, his value is through the roof. Skinner and Hanifin? Is that enough for a guy who is almost on par with Giordano and making half the money and is six years younger? Does Carolina need to add to a package of Skinner and Hanifin to get a stud like Travis?

There I go undervaluing Travis again, only Hanifin and Skinner....ridiculous. With the high demand for Hamonic, I would try to get Lindholm thrown in as well. Flames may need to add the Hudler 4th rounder. Final offer to Carolina with the threat that we will shop Hamonic's services elsewhere

To Carolina - Hamonic and Florida's 2018 4th rounder

To Calgary - Skinner, Hanifin, Lindholm


Gaudreau Monahan Ferland
Tkachuk Backlund Frolik
Skinner Jankowski Lindholm
Bennett D. Ryan Lazar

Giordano Hamilton
Hanifin Brodie
Kulak Stone
Anderson

Realistic when you have a gem like Hamonic to shop around.

Possibly the best post of the night.
Quoted for posterity if it happens tomorrow!

[blender]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Are you saying that the Flames are surprised that one of Andersson, Kylington, Fox or Valimaki have developed in the last year? When the Flames snagged Hamonic for the bargain price of a 1st and two seconds they had as their assets on the backend

Valimaki - 1st round pick
Fox - US world Junior participant and over PPG dman as a freshman
Andersson - 2015 2nd round pick who just finished a productive 1st pro season.
Kylington - 2015 2nd round pick who had 2 pro seasons under his belt.

If a NHL GM cannot forsee that one of those assets could develop they are not really a very good GM. The development of the defensive prospects, or at least one of them should have been forseeable.

Not one of those players is proven at the NHL level. Having to count on one to fill a spot for 82 games is folly.
Giving one of them the opportunity is important, but it is unlikely that it would come at Hamonics expense, so he is a net upgrade. That's the reason he was acquired.

[Caged Great]

Frankly, I don't think it's a great idea right now to make a trade.

The Flames have the #1 commodity that teams need. They are going to need D-men today, tomorrow, in July, and in the season. Forwards are always easier to come by. I'd wait and see how the UFA market shakes out and see if you can put a dent in the problem via free agency and then go from there.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by blender

Not one of those players is proven at the NHL level. Having to count on one to fill a spot for 82 games is folly.
Giving one of them the opportunity is important, but it is unlikely that it would come at Hamonics expense, so he is a net upgrade. That's the reason he was acquired.

Both perspectives have merit. Hamonic is proven and the others are yet to be. The team laid an egg with proven Hamonic.
How much better is the Flames overall D with Hamonic than with the other slotted my ths would result? Can’t know.

What Hamonic was supposed to be, though, was filling a perceived gap and improving a playoff team.

It’s easy to take the side that Hamonic, among other things, didn’t work. And you can select the most important data, team results, to support.

It’s also easy to name several other factors and claim that this guy was ok, but then one guy ranked him #2 above Hamilton and Gio and that was kinda weird.

Either way, the reason for which Hamonic was acquired, which presumably was at least in part to improve the D of a playoff team that, could have won the first round despite the goaltending (!, not D), could position them for a run of greater depth ... well, that fell flatter than a pancake.

Mediocre personal results, crap team results, the whole thing failed. The reason to give up 3 draft picks wasn’t because the other guys weren’t quite ready, it was more so going for it. And it flopped

[DeluxeMoustache]

In fact, step back from CP and look at it.

Flames make the playoffs and lose out with bad G

Offseason, they fix the consensus G problem with Smith. They add Hamonic without expending any NHL assets. Hamonic, who was one of those guys who needed out of NYI, some kind of beef with the team. Maybe legit, but when it’s the case, you darn well better step up wherever you land.

People think Smith is generally great, even though the home/road stats split is really off.

Are other GMs now lining up for Hamonic? If so, how?

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Mike F

The Flames would have been better off as an overall team going with Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Stone, Kulak and finding a reliable 6 defenseman (with their deep prospect pool fighting for a spot), then using the 1st and two 2nds to acquire a 25-30 goal scoring winger. And if you need proof of that, look no further than last year's failure of a season and the fact that the Flames are now shopping a defenseman to fill the hole up front.

Revisionist history.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

In fact, step back from CP and look at it.

Flames make the playoffs and lose out with bad G

Offseason, they fix the consensus G problem with Smith. They add Hamonic without expending any NHL assets. Hamonic, who was one of those guys who needed out of NYI, some kind of beef with the team. Maybe legit, but when it’s the case, you darn well better step up wherever you land.

People think Smith is generally great, even though the home/road stats split is really off.

Are other GMs now lining up for Hamonic? If so, how?

There was no “beef” with the team.

Hamonic requested a trade for family reasons and then rescinded that request a fair bit before he was ever traded.

[Yrebmi]

Hamonic did not come cheap, but he was not over priced either.
A first and 2 seconds was and is market value.
Something else to consider - if not a Flame, there is an fair chance he would be on the Oiler's roster last year.

Edit

Originally Posted by ComixZone

There was no “beef” with the team.

Hamonic requested a trade for family reasons and then rescinded that request a fair bit before he was ever traded.

I like to think he only rescinded when it looked like they might send him to Edmonton