What is a realistic way of Improving the Calgary Flames ?

[JJFlash]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

1) Bartkowski --> Sun. Do not pass Gulutzan. Do not collect anything from the emotional bank account.

2) Open up the offense. Our D need to be part of most of our scoring chances as it was under Hartley. You can still play a more structured game while getting contributions from your backend. I would let Gulutzan go and bring in Lindy Ruff. This is the kind of team that plays better defensively with a lead to protect.

3) Cut your losses with Lazar, Hamonic, Brouwer. They didn't work out (as anybody who looked at their underlyings would have predicted), boo hoo. Sunk cost. Waive Lazar/Brouwer. Hope Lazar has an epiphany in the AHL and Brouwer... doesn't report and we can terminate him. Otherwise it is what it is.

4)Call up Mangiapane and Hrivik/Hathaway.

Shake up the forwards full blender. As effective as one line is I am thinking spreading out the offense is doable:

Mangiapane-Monahan-Jagr
Gaudreau-Backlund-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Versteeg
Hrivik-Bennett-Frolik / Frolik-Bennett-Hathaway
Hamilton
Stajan

5)Call up Kylington. Have Hamonic split 3rd pair duties with Stone depending on whichever guy wants to play a better gap on a given day. I prefer Stone since he is at least an offensive threat and ever so slightly cheaper.

Giordano-Hamilton
Kulak-Brodie
Kylington-Stone/Hamonic
Hamonic/Stone

6)Keep Net as is

Smith
Rittich

7)Have Bennett take draws on the first PK with Backlund. He has become our best faceoff guy so see if that translates:

Bennett-Backlund
Jankowski-Frolik
Monahan-Hathaway

Giordano-Brodie
Kulak-Stone/Hamonic
Kylington/Hamilton if necessary

8)Take TJ Brodie off the first PP and put Dougie Hamilton there. In fact take Brodie off the PP entirely and have him focus on bringing back the 5on5 beast from the past.

Hamilton
Gaudreau-Monahan-Versteeg
Ferland

Giordano-Stone/Jankowski
Backlund-Bennett
Tkachuk

9) As for trade, I would put Hamonic and Stone both on the block to see if anyone has a decent middle 6 RW to offer. I like Carl Hagelin personally. Maybe you could even get Paul Byron. A guy in that general mold of speedy two way player.

10) Look to upgrade on Kris Versteeg. Jarome Iginla is an option. But it's gotta be an outright replacement.

There are some pretty good players that have had a handfuls of sub- par games so cutting bait on Hamonic is premature. Despite Brodie's warts he is still our best bargaining chip. He is an offensive minded defenseman without a shot and a defensive liability. Kjillington could make the same mistakes as Brodie but at least he would have an excuse. I think Simmonds has hit a wall and Philly might listen. I still think Andersson will be a top 4 as soon as next year.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Most suggestions are changing lines and pairings.

Is that not tinkering along the margins?

Probably right. I suppose my reaction to this thread is more that this team is playing exactly where people should expect it to be. On pace for 96 to 100 points, and comfortably in the playoff race. Management has committed to this core - and this coach - but I don't think they are expecting big things for a couple seasons yet.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Corral

Probably right. I suppose my reaction to this thread is more that this team is playing exactly where people should expect it to be. On pace for 96 to 100 points, and comfortably in the playoff race. Management has committed to this core - and this coach - but I don't think they are expecting big things for a couple seasons yet.

I dunno. I drew a different conclusion based on the picks traded away in the hamonic deal. Heck maybe even the jagr signing. Maybe not a ultimate cup contender but a strong improvement over last year's team results in the season standings and playoffs.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Corral

Probably right. I suppose my reaction to this thread is more that this team is playing exactly where people should expect it to be. On pace for 96 to 100 points, and comfortably in the playoff race. Management has committed to this core - and this coach - but I don't think they are expecting big things for a couple seasons yet.

To nit pick, they are on pace for 92 points (based on 27 points in 24 games) and right now, sit barely outside of a playoff spot. They have a negative goal differential and a losing record in regulation.

I agree its fair to keep expectations in check and a two game winning streak changes all those projections. As you say they are in the thick of the playoff race and no reason to panic.

But to miss the playoffs and have no draft picks in top 3 rounds? That would be an outcome to avoid IMO. As I recall, it was the Flames themselves talking about their "window".

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

The 3rd line needs to get going. In my opinion that's the biggest area that needs to be addressed. I would be interested in what a Brodie+Sam package could get you in the way of a young winger with proven scoring touch.
But there is risk in a deal like that. I think Brodie is more important than we may realize in terms of getting the puck to guys like Johnny in transition. And there is risk that Sam blows up with a change of scenery
But those are the two pieces that I see having value that could net you.a forward that gives you 3 lines that can do something.

I agree with you. I guess the question is the return. If the Flames can get someone who actually works out, it would be bearable even if Bennett breaks out somewhere else.

When I watch Bennett's game this year, there's zero doubt the effort is there and he's trying. But I do question his intelligence in the majority of his game and while he certainly makes strong plays, I think those are in the minority this year.

I'm unsure what his value is around the league given his struggles. I get the feeling that unless there's a GM out there that is still a "fanboy" of Bennett, the return will reflect what we've all seen this year in terms of Bennett's play, which if we're honest, has been very bad, which is why if the Flames decide to move him, he will need to be packaged with someone else of value (like a Brodie).

[Corral]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I dunno. I drew a different conclusion based on the picks traded away in the hamonic deal. Heck maybe even the jagr signing. Maybe not a ultimate cup contender but a strong improvement over last year's team results in the season standings and playoffs.

I think Hamonic was acquired this summer because he was available now and the Flames are high on him and didn't want to lose the opportunity to get him - not necessarily because this season would be a huge leap in the standings.

Jagr was a marketing ploy IMO - and maybe for mentoring although I think some folks overplay that significantly. I think he will be out of gas in May when it matters.

I think what keeps management up at night these days is whether Sam Bennett will realize his potential. As others have said elsewhere, its really important for the #4 overall pick to not be a dud. Time will tell, but selling low is clearly a bad move.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Corral

I think what keeps management up at night these days is whether Sam Bennett will realize his potential. As others have said elsewhere, its really important for the #4 overall pick to not be a dud. Time will tell, but selling low is clearly a bad move.

Just look at Lazar.

Does he have more or less value this year than last?

Could the flames actually ask for a second round pick for him right now? Does he even have any value at all?

Selling low isn't great, but at least it's a sale. The flames run the risk of holding the bag as Bennett fully busts out. That's even worse than selling low.

[Flames_F.T.W]

As others have said, Sam Bennett coming even close to his potential would solve A LOT of team issues.

I also think GG needs to start taking a shorter term approach to his coaching style. Plan to win one game at a time. He's gambling on a lot of pairings and systems paying off in the long run and seems willing to suffer through growing pains

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

To nit pick, they are on pace for 92 points (based on 27 points in 24 games) and right now, sit barely outside of a playoff spot. They have a negative goal differential and a losing record in regulation.

I agree its fair to keep expectations in check and a two game winning streak changes all those projections. As you say they are in the thick of the playoff race and no reason to panic.

But to miss the playoffs and have no draft picks in top 3 rounds? That would be an outcome to avoid IMO. As I recall, it was the Flames themselves talking about their "window".

One of the commentators during the Tampa game last night pointed out that Tampa, as strong as it is, still has its top 3 picks for the next 3 drafts.

[Lanny_McDonald]

If you believe that Sam Bennett has some potential, you fire the coach, like yesterday, and hope he can be turned around. If you think he is what he is, you try and trade him and hope there is some other GM out there who is believes there is more to him than another Curtis Lazar. It is a hard sell considering he is on track for 4G and 14P this season. It is sad to watch a prospect with such great talent get ruined right in front of our eyes.

[Tinordi]

If Bennett can't succeed playing system hockey then he isn't a modern day NHLer. It's on him not the coach.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Corral

Probably right. I suppose my reaction to this thread is more that this team is playing exactly where people should expect it to be. On pace for 96 to 100 points, and comfortably in the playoff race. Management has committed to this core - and this coach - but I don't think they are expecting big things for a couple seasons yet.

Nothing comfortable about where this team is. Currently outside a playoff spot and have a negative goal diff.

The old fashioned eye ball test also shows the team has some pretty big defensive deficiencies. The 3rd and 4th lines aren't contributing at all.

I am not comfortable and I hope the players aren't either

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Corral

I think Hamonic was acquired this summer because he was available now and the Flames are high on him and didn't want to lose the opportunity to get him - not necessarily because this season would be a huge leap in the standings.

Jagr was a marketing ploy IMO - and maybe for mentoring although I think some folks overplay that significantly. I think he will be out of gas in May when it matters.

I think what keeps management up at night these days is whether Sam Bennett will realize his potential. As others have said elsewhere, its really important for the #4 overall pick to not be a dud. Time will tell, but selling low is clearly a bad move.

To run out of gas, he first needs to fill the tank. There have been a couple of flashes but he has yet to help the Flames win many games.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by New Era

If you believe that Sam Bennett has some potential, you fire the coach, like yesterday, and hope he can be turned around. If you think he is what he is, you try and trade him and hope there is some other GM out there who is believes there is more to him than another Curtis Lazar. It is a hard sell considering he is on track for 4G and 14P this season. It is sad to watch a prospect with such great talent get ruined right in front of our eyes.

So he's being ruined is he? Sam Bennett is responsible for Sam Bennett on and off the ice. No one else is. This kid has had the luxury of being given a ridiculously long leash to figure himself out at multiple positions and is simply unable to do so as a pro.

I really cannot understand why anyone would even attempt to make excuses for him at this point. Sportsnet summed it up last game when they mentioned he has something like 15 points in his last 58 games.....4th line production from a guy getting decent minutes with decent linemates is a clear indication he's treading water.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

So he's being ruined is he? Sam Bennett is responsible for Sam Bennett on and off the ice. No one else is. This kid has had the luxury of being given a ridiculously long leash to figure himself out at multiple positions and is simply unable to do so as a pro.

I really cannot understand why anyone would even attempt to make excuses for him at this point. Sportsnet summed it up last game when they mentioned he has something like 15 points in his last 58 games.....4th line production from a guy getting decent minutes with decent linemates is a clear indication he's treading water.

Same thing could be said about Sven. He is on pace for 56pts by the way.

I agree with New Era on this one. I am not a GG guy anyway but I am really hesitant about moving Bennett but it is getting harder to see him breaking or anytime soon.

Funny you say he gets decent linemates because that is false. Not saying he should be gifted the opportunity but the Flames organization and fans suffered through a bad season to draft Bennett and he has shown flashes of his potential.

I really don’t want to see Bennett traded for a 2nd or some other junk and watch him become a star elsewhere.

The lack of development for Bennett has to be shared by te player and the organization. GG forcing him to play centre all year last year and watch his confidence evaporate is on the coach. He should have been shifted to the wing long ago and that is on GG.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

If Bennett can't succeed playing system hockey then he isn't a modern day NHLer. It's on him not the coach.

I'm really lost when it comes to bennett. In the first few views, though limited in quantity, we saw a fast, good puck skills, good shot, hungry for the puck, do whatever it takes to win a battle. Like remember that 4 goal game against the panthers, those goals weren't fugly goals, they were high skill type plays.

Then you go back to last season, and so far this season, it's like he's a COMPLETELY different player, and many of the strengths and skill sets just vanished.

Were we (perhaps I) just seeing what we wanted to see earlier on? I just don't buy that.... That's why i'just fine at least trying him up in the lineup playing with more established players, to try to bring back some of those attributes back to the surface. He didn't lose all his skill, perhaps hockey IQ isn't what we thought it was, but putting him with established high IQ players, may at least allow some of the raw skill to come out, which is something this team is in need of.

This entire topic is sad to me

[Pellanor]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

...

Great post. These play breakdowns you've been doing lately add a ton to the board, and I just want to say how much I appreciate them. As somebody who only watches and has never play, they give me much better insight into the game.