What kind of bizzaro CalPuck is this? Praising Borvat?
He's a good player but by some of the Flames fans here you would think he's an elite forward ready to break out which is absolutely not the case. The Monahan comparisons are embarrassingly silly and I'm not a fan that thinks Monahan is close to elite.
Canucks and Flames fans should know fully well the cautionary tale about players that put up good numbers on bad teams as both organizations have been stung by acquiring Florida Panthers players that were nowhere close to replicating success on teams that were expected to make the playoffs. Monahan has been putting up a lot of his numbers in games that matter where the playoffs are on the line and for the majority of Horvat's career he's been on teams playing out the string with little pressure. It makes a big difference.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 09-09-2017 at 08:38 AM.
He's a good player but by some of the Flames fans here you would think he's an elite forward ready to break out which is absolutely not the case. The Monahan comparisons are embarrassingly silly and I'm not a fan that thinks Monahan is close to elite.
Canucks and Flames fans should know fully well the cautionary tale about players that put up good numbers on bad teams as both organizations have been stung by acquiring Florida Panthers players that were nowhere close to replicating success on teams that were expected to make the playoffs. Monahan has been putting up a lot of his numbers in games that matter where the playoffs are on the line and for the majority of Horvat's career he's been on teams playing out the string with little pressure. It makes a big difference.
What kind of bizzaro CalPuck is this? Praising Borvat?
Sometimes it's okay to take of the homer glasses and compliment a player, even if he's on a rival. Horvat's a good player, someone I'd take on the Flames any day. Not his fault he was drafted by the Canucks.
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I'd disagree. I think those playoffs were his coming out party and that was when he first really caught my eye as a player. The entire video is great, but look at those rushes at 1:16 and 2:13 and also that move at 2:57
Sometimes it's okay to take of the homer glasses and compliment a player, even if he's on a rival. Horvat's a good player, someone I'd take on the Flames any day. Not his fault he was drafted by the Canucks.
Yes he's a good player don't think anyone is denying that. He's not a $5.5 million dollar player.
I'd disagree. I think those playoffs were his coming out party and that was when he first really caught my eye as a player. The entire video is great, but look at those rushes at 1:16 and 2:13 and also that move at 2:57
Sometimes it's okay to take of the homer glasses and compliment a player, even if he's on a rival. Horvat's a good player, someone I'd take on the Flames any day. Not his fault he was drafted by the Canucks.
He's a decent player, but I wouldn't want him on the Flames... where would be play?
Replace Monahan on the first line? Nope.
Replace Backlund on the second line? Nope.
Replace Bennett/Jankowski on the third line? Maybe, but not for $3.5 million more.
Replace Stajan on the first line? Sure, but not for $2 million more.
He's a decent player, but I wouldn't want him on the Flames... where would be play?
Replace Monahan on the first line? Nope.
Replace Backlund on the second line? Nope.
Replace Bennett/Jankowski on the third line? Maybe, but not for $3.5 million more.
Replace Stajan on the first line? Sure, but not for $2 million more.
Really? If Horvat were on waivers tomorrow, and Flames had first selection you would say no thanks?
Yes he's a good player don't think anyone is denying that. He's not a $5.5 million dollar player.
I think you're mistaken there. The market keeps going up and up and you can thank the Oilers. Pretty similar player in value to Wennberg IMO. I think Horvat at 5.5 is a lot more bang on then Draisaitl at 8.5. Horvat is not as far behind Monahan as some fans in this thread seem to think. He's a foundational centre, one of their best young players and a player we'd be happy to have on the Flames. Those that think he's mediocre or average will be in for a rude surprise over the length of this contract. He's going to be one of the hardest Canucks to play against for the duration of that contract. I'd take him on my team anyday. He improved his skating immensely which was his biggest weakness. He's skilled offensively, plays the game hard, he's hard on the puck, good intangibles and leadership. The exact type of player you want to build around. He may not be a prototypical #1 centre but he's been underrated in this thread by some. If you think he's merely going to be a 50 point player his entire career I think you'll be mistaken. The kid is 22 years old and look how long it took Backlund to peak. Look how long it took Scheiffele to peak.
I mean we can be Flames fans and still try to be objective about opposition players. You don't have to trash and underrate the opposition, its not our duty as fans IMO. Horvat is a heck of a young player. I think he'll end up as an upper echelon #2 centre who can play in all situations. PP, PK, and logging hard minutes against the opposition's best. I'd expect him to take another step forward offensively in the next season or two. He'll probably be the Canucks #1 centre by default next season.
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He's a decent player, but I wouldn't want him on the Flames... where would be play?
Replace Monahan on the first line? Nope.
Replace Backlund on the second line? Nope.
Replace Bennett/Jankowski on the third line? Maybe, but not for $3.5 million more.
Replace Stajan on the first line? Sure, but not for $2 million more.
LOL. He'd play wherever the coach wants him to play. He'd look pretty good on Backlund's LW IMO which would free up Tkachuk to help another scoring line.
Horvat is a helluva player. If you don't want him on the Flames then you haven't watched Horvat very closely IMO. Calling him a "decent" player isn't giving him his due. I mean I understand that tendency to want to think our rivals just suck and have no good players. But IMO he's easily the most desirable and valuable Canuck player. I'd take him on my team any day of the week. He's skilled and plays the game the right way.
I'm sure some of you will be begrudgingly won over to respect him over the course of this contract.
Bo Horvat has never been a plus player in his three year NHL career. He's also a combined -37 in his last 2 seasons.
His defence is being over rated.
Is Brodie one of the worst defensemen in the league? Cause his +/- early last season would've suggested that. It's a stat but it has its limitations. You have to look at who they play with and how good the team is. +/- is mostly a team stat. Those on elite teams will have crazy good +/-. Those on poor teams will have crazy bad +/-. Put Horvat on WSH and his +/- is probably amazing.
Pointing to one of the worst teams in the league and saying player X sucks cause he hasn't been a + player is stupid.
He's a young player with an awesome upside. Are the Canucks somewhat paying for potential? Yeah I suppose since his offensive numbers haven't been mind blowing yet. But Horvat is the most valuable and most desirable Canuck IMO. His numbers should spike in the next year or two
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Nobody says he sucks FDW stop putting words in people's mouth. He's an average to above average defensive center.
Who cares if he's the most valuable Canuck, that's not setting the bar very high. Literally 8 players on the Flames better than Horvat and more valuable than him.
If a player can't be a + player in three seasons, it shows he is pretty average defensively. Name one defensive center who doesn't score much who has been a minus player three years in a row and makes $5.5 million.
Last edited by calgaryblood; 09-09-2017 at 12:17 PM.
Really? If Horvat were on waivers tomorrow, and Flames had first selection you would say no thanks?
I'd take him and his contract.
Good players don't end up on waivers, so is that a realistic scenario?
Of course is take him for free, then I'd flip him for picks because I don't think he's better (or better value) than the players Calgary has on the first and second lines and you can't pay 3rd and 4th line players $5.5 million.
Nobody says he sucks FDW stop putting words in people's mouth. He's an average to above average defensive center.
I don't think he's a defensive centre. He's a two way centre. He'll likely be their #1 centre next season. You make it sound like he's a 3rd line centre for life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
Who cares if he's the most valuable Canuck, that's not setting the bar very high. Literally 8 players on the Flames better than Horvat and more valuable than him.
Not sure I agree but w/e. Don't think its constructive to actually break down that statement of yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
If a player can't be a + player in three seasons, it shows he is pretty average defensively. Name one defensive center who doesn't score much who has been a minus player three years in a row and makes $5.5 million.
He isn't a defensive centre, you seem to misunderstand his role or upside. You seem to misunderstand how useful +/- is in terms of analyzing players on the worst teams in the league.
But w/e. I'll never convince you otherwise. Like I said his play likely will unless you want to stubbornly stick your view of him being a defensive centre who is average defensively. As far as saying he sucks basically you are in a backhanded way, I don't have to put any words in your mouth, you already did.
We can continue to follow his career and see who is right. I'll stick by my stance that you and some others in this thread are underrating his current ability and his future ability.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 09-09-2017 at 01:42 PM.
