[News] Habs hire Julien as head coach. Therrien fired

[dino7c]

Maybe GG should be fired...but to assume every coach would come here if Tre asked is stupid

BB and Julien coach the two best goal tenders in the NHL...pretty nice situation for a coach to walk in to

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm not an expert on NHL coaching like (apparently) a lot of other posters, but the reaction to this is kind of strange.

Why would the Bruins let the Habs get Julien? Well, they just fired him and to me that's a bit of a giveaway that they don't think he's the greatest coach going.

Particularly to your most hated rival.
Habs already fired Julien once because he was no good, now he's the best thing ever?
Go figure...

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Read Bingo's most recent stat breakdown of the team to see what's really going on with the Flames this year. Overall, they're a much better team. Unfortunately, like most young teams, they're extremely inconsistent. Goaltending has also not been very good this year outside of a hot stretch by Johnson. Any team with below average goaltending is going to struggle with consistency.

I don't think that's what someone should take away from Bingo's thorough review...

.... But this is just shots on goal, and as stated above it doesn’t provide enough colour when it comes to whether or not a team is generating good shots, or just throwing the puck away from all angles.

So for that we look at the three Flames teams again, but this time in terms of scoring chances, which the league defines as shots from within the home plate area of the ice.

. . . .

This year under Gulutzan the Flames are on pace for 833 scoring chances, down 103 from last season, but have prevented 98 more against, giving a similar balance as last year, sitting at +4.

So, compared to last season, Gulutzen has tightened the team up defensively (scoring chances against down by 98), but that has come at the cost of an even bigger drop in offense (scoring chance for down 103). So, they drop from a +9 SCF/SCA to a +4.

Combine that "advanced" metric of team performance with the blunt metric of the team having only 4 more points than last year through 57 games, and I'm not sure how anyone can conclude that the team is "much better".

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Because, no team is ever going to win consistently playing a loose defensive game. Even if you have a good season, the next year you're going to be out of the playoffs (Avs in 13/14, Flames in 14/15, Stars in 15/16).

Plus, special teams. We were in the basement last year in both categories. This year we've jumped 10+ spots in both categories, despite some shakey goaltending.

Defense and special teams. That's how almost everyone wins in today's NHL.

Also, our offense is down largely due to poor play from our top offensive players. Perhaps you can put that on Gulutzan, but it's just as likely the players' fault.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm not an expert on NHL coaching like (apparently) a lot of other posters, but the reaction to this is kind of strange.

Why would the Bruins let the Habs get Julien? Well, they just fired him and to me that's a bit of a giveaway that they don't think he's the greatest coach going.

Julien was a scapegoat. The GM isn't gonna fire himself for building a terrible team, and someone had to go.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Because, no team is ever going to win consistently playing a loose defensive game. Even if you have a good season, the next year you're going to be out of the playoffs (Avs in 13/14, Flames in 14/15, Stars in 15/16).

Plus, special teams. We were in the basement last year in both categories. This year we've jumped 10+ spots in both categories, despite some shakey goaltending.

Defense and special teams. That's how almost everyone wins in today's NHL.

Also, our offense is down largely due to poor play from our top offensive players. Perhaps you can put that on Gulutzan, but it's just as likely the players' fault.

Look at last year's standings (or the standings for pretty much any year) and you'll see that the most glaring delineator for playoff teams vs. non-playoff teams is... Playoff teams score more goals than they let in. Period. And teams end up scoring more goals than they let in by generating more scoring chances for than against.

Reducing your scoring chance for more than you reduce your scoring chances against is not a path to winning hockey.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Maybe GG should be fired...but to assume every coach would come here if Tre asked is stupid

BB and Julien coach the two best goal tenders in the NHL...pretty nice situation for a coach to walk in to

Good goalies make good coaches.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by codynw

Julien was a scapegoat. The GM isn't gonna fire himself for building a terrible team, and someone had to go.

Yeah fair enough but it looks even worse if they don't allow a rival to hire a guy he has just publicly blamed for that team's performance.

I really don't know who is right in all this, but it would look pretty bad for the Bs to say "oh you can't have the coach we fired", considering they just fired him and he's (ostensibly at least) not good enough to coach their team.

[CrispyGriz]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Good goalies make good coaches.

And good defensive systems make good goalies.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Nah, it's the same pattern all year ever since the bad start. Nobody wants to give him credit when things are going well, but every single thing is his fault when things aren't good. Everything he does is put under a microscope because he didn't come in with a long resume, so people assume he's not doing a good enough job. Fans have focused on the minutiae of his work and can't see the forest for the trees.

Read Bingo's most recent stat breakdown of the team to see what's really going on with the Flames this year. Overall, they're a much better team. Unfortunately, like most young teams, they're extremely inconsistent. Goaltending has also not been very good this year outside of a hot stretch by Johnson. Any team with below average goaltending is going to struggle with consistency.

Make no mistake, Gulutzan is the team's whipping boy this year, and by that I mean he's shouldering far too much of the blame for a team that isn't perfect and still has a good shot at the playoffs.

I remember PLENTY of people eating crow about Gulutzan when the Flames started to piece it together, and then they (Johnson) went on the hot streak.

You and a couple other posters seem to be taking it personally that not everyone thinks that improvements in some statistics equals actual improvement. This team is better on paper, yet more insonsistent, and downright terrible to watch.

They are at the same pace points wise, with similar crappy goaltending. Baffling positioning decisions that are, IMO, directly related to certain players having their worst years ever.

The guy is not a good coach. You need to stop with the "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" act, just because people don't agree with you.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 4X4

...You and a couple other posters seem to be taking it personally that not everyone thinks that improvements in some statistics equals actual improvement. This team is better on paper, yet more insonsistent, and downright terrible to watch...

I don't believe that this year's Flames is more inconsistent than last year's team.

[Mr.Coffee]

in terms of inconsistency, I actually think they're about the same.

To be honest, I think overall the team performance / skill / talent level is about the same too but with different strengths and weaknesses year over year.

Some of the off-season guys like Brouwer and Elliott have been huge disappointments, but the coach looks like a miss.

Frankly, Calgary should have been in on Julien. He's a legitimate star coach, and I'm not sure why we wouldn't jump all over that opportunity but likely has to do with politics and BS like that.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't believe that this year's Flames is more inconsistent than last year's team.

Actually, you're right. Gulutzan is consistently playing the hell out of our worst defenceman. And he is consistently turning our former star defenceman into the worst plus minus defenceman in the league. True consistency there, fo sho.

[dino7c]

Montreal is pretty limited on coaching options...he had to figure they would be asking him eventually and he would have likely held out while collecting a big fat check

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Because, no team is ever going to win consistently playing a loose defensive game. Even if you have a good season, the next year you're going to be out of the playoffs (Avs in 13/14, Flames in 14/15, Stars in 15/16).

Plus, special teams. We were in the basement last year in both categories. This year we've jumped 10+ spots in both categories, despite some shakey goaltending.

Defense and special teams. That's how almost everyone wins in today's NHL.

Also, our offense is down largely due to poor play from our top offensive players. Perhaps you can put that on Gulutzan, but it's just as likely the players' fault.

This is where I have some real concerns when it comes to Gulutzan.

I would expect that when he brought in a more defensive-minded system, our offensive-minded D would take a hit across the board on their stats. I expected that and I have no issues with that at all.

I would also pin the regression being on the players and not on Gulutzan if it was simply the case of one or two players, or even a single line that is just not 'clicking' any longer. Outside of the Backlund line (with Backlund seeing a negligible spike in production), it seems that all the players that were expected to shoulder the burden of producing have all declined.

Yes, it is a young team, and one can point and say: "sophomore slump", and I would be 100% inclined to agree there and take a wait and see approach. However, when I see Gaudreau taking a step back, Bennett taking a step back, Monahan taking a step back, Brodie seemingly falling off the face of the earth not just in point production but in practically every facet of the game - I start wondering aloud if this isn't on the coach himself.

I don't think he has done enough to warrant being fired. I did not expect the Flames to be contending this year either. I am just seeing a lack of progression in what we expect out of the 'core'. To me, this concerns me more this year than the win-loss record. The eye test tells me this team hasn't improved, regardless of what the advanced metrics want to imply.

I am definitely not liking what I see from every 10 game segment. This team has no spine, too many players are regressing, there is still too many defensive lapses, and there is way too much inconsistency. I feel the team has been upgraded considerably since last year, and my expectations were that they would be a bubble team this season. They are definitely a bubble team, but it just sure seems like the underlying reason for that is how poorly the western conference has played than any consistent positive progression on the part of the Flames.

I still don't think you fire Gulutzan - he has done enough to at least ride out the season with. I do not, however, think that he is beyond criticism at all.

It doesn't matter if a team replaces the coach every 6 months. People will always say: "What, replace the coach again? That obviously wasn't the answer." It still could very well be the answer if a team didn't replace the coach adequately. Playfair, Keenan and Brent Sutter were all poor coaching hires. Some may add that Hartley was as well (I think he was an upgrade, though still not at the Darryl Sutter/Bob Johnson level of course).

I used to believe that back then, this team was 'hard to coach'. I remember that being bandied about around 2010 or so. I have since thought about that, and instead just think that this team is 'difficulty in finding a coach'. Gulutzan may yet prove to be the answer, but he is DEFINITELY not beyond criticism. He seems like he is more likely not to be the answer at this point. He has made some improvements, but there is a lot of room for concern for me.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't believe that this year's Flames is more inconsistent than last year's team.

Based on what exactly? The team won a Franchise record 11 games in a row at home last season, that seems pretty consistent.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Based on what exactly? The team won a Franchise record 11 games in a row at home last season, that seems pretty consistent.

Is this a joke? You are proving they were incredibly inconsistent last season

11 game win streak, finished with terrible record

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't believe that this year's Flames is more inconsistent than last year's team.

You're right, this year's squad is quite consistent at getting blasted out of the building when they don't score first.

Any fan with a shred of statistical chops can simply look at the Flames winning % when trailing after the first period and conclude they have zero push back.

Totally consistent.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

You're right, this year's squad is quite consistent at getting blasted out of the building when they don't score first.

Any fan with a shred of statistical chops can simply look at the Flames winning % when trailing after the first period and conclude they have zero push back.

Totally consistent.

They're 16th in the league for win % when trailing after 1, 19th when trailing after 2, and 14th in win % when their opponent scores first in general.

So... better than the bottom third of the league in both scenarios. That's not as dramatic as you made it sound.

EDIT: Fun fact, all three of those numbers (win % after trailing after 1st, win % trailing after 2nd, and win % opponent scoring first) are improved over last year. So our push back level has actually increased under Gulutzan.

2014-15 was a great year for comebacks (those win percentages were all very high), but our numbers are actually a great improvement over the average of the last decade or so. Not including 14-15:

Win % opponent scores first - Best since 08-09
Win % trailing after 2 - Best since 10-11
Win % trailing after 1 - Best since 09-09

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

They're 16th in the league for win % when trailing after 1, 19th when trailing after 2, and 14th in win % when their opponent scores first in general.

So... better than the bottom third of the league in both scenarios. That's not as dramatic as you made it sound.

EDIT: Fun fact, all three of those numbers (win % after trailing after 1st, win % trailing after 2nd, and win % opponent scoring first) are improved over last year. So our push back level has actually increased under Gulutzan.

2014-15 was a great year for comebacks (those win percentages were all very high), but our numbers are actually a great improvement over the average of the last decade or so. Not including 14-15:

Win % opponent scores first - Best since 08-09
Win % trailing after 2 - Best since 10-11
Win % trailing after 1 - Best since 09-09

Win % trailing after 1 was 14th last season. Where are you getting these numbers from? That's better than this season.